Author Topic: Favorite Way to Tie Trucker's Hitch  (Read 144290 times)

xarax

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #90 on: December 09, 2011, 03:14:23 AM »
   I believe a series of carefully chosen sketches and/or pictures can show any tying method of any  practical knot, sufficiently well. ( There is no real need for videos... ). I admit I prefer to see nipping loops where others see half hitches, and I always try to analyze and describe complex knots by using a reduced set of simple knot elements ( and not a set of not simple knots, as the Constrictor ...). Analyzing and describing knots and knot-tying methods by other, well known knots and methods , although it seems an easy and natural thing to do, is often a source of mistakes, because practical knots are simple knots, and simple things are very sensitive to even one minuscule difference... Yes, some pictures will help (me)   :)!
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TMCD

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #91 on: December 09, 2011, 11:04:36 PM »
It does capsize and it's desirable in this case as you already mentioned. I can probably dress it to where it doesn't capsize but then again if I do that, it'll be much harder to untie. I pulled on that ear and it's definitely secure, my 275lbs couldn't budge it.

Here's the deal with this knot. I've been looking for alternatives to the regular Bell Ringer TH because I happen to really like the style of the BellRinger and how it just falls apart. We've got the BellRinger HH lock which was the main improvement to this style until right now...at least that appears to be the case. The Constrictor Ringer just falls apart too and is probably more secure than the Bell Ringer HH lock IMO. It's extremely fun to tie, and is cool in it's ability to improve upon the Bell Ringer which basically went for years without much improvement. Let's also remember that the Bell Ringer is probably the "original trucker's hitch/wagoner's hitch" from back in the day. We've seen many modifications to the TH because of slippery rope...that's the main reason we see it tied with slipped knots and fixed knots. The original method was good for coarse rope. Now we can use the original method with a slick modification.

I'm sure I could tie it with gloves on but gloves would complicate the tying process of darn near any knot IMO.

TMCD

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #92 on: December 10, 2011, 06:35:04 AM »
I've found another way to secure the Bell Ringer in the TH, just tie ABOK 1244 in the Bight and it operates just like the Constrictor does. I'll have to fool around with it to see whether or not I like it better than the Constrictor. It might be better because it may untie just a little easier. Either way, they both give plenty of security to the TH and could be used as either quickie's or semi-permanent tie downs.

I can't see myself ever using a fixed loop again.

Hrungnir

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #93 on: December 12, 2011, 12:50:15 PM »
Do you guys have any good suggestions for the finishing hitch of the TH?

Two half hitches seems to jam horrible if there's a lot of tension, or one of the object or cord is soft or springy. A slipped single half hitch may not be secure enough for some situations...

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #94 on: December 12, 2011, 06:35:59 PM »
Do you guys have any good suggestions for the finishing hitch of the TH?

Two half hitches seems to jam horrible if there's a lot of tension, or one of the object or cord is soft or springy. A slipped single half hitch may not be secure enough for some situations...

!!  If 2HH jams, then so too would a slipped single hitch
--though this implies a lot of load (or a too-small line).
Still, I often like to tie off with a friction hitch to the multiple
lines (two, at least) leading to the anchor point --possibly,
if jamming is a risk, with a *guard* half-hitch (turn) (or double),
and then a rolling hitch or clove hitch (the latter being
adequate in rough cordage and with the guard doing work).

Sometimes, one can put in a tight half-hitch(turn) and then
jam the tail between the just-nipped lines beyond & then
behind this turn (which behind placement spreads the two
tensioned lines immediately before the half-hitch and thus
gives it some better *bite*).


--dl*
====

Hrungnir

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #95 on: December 12, 2011, 07:56:13 PM »
Do you guys have any good suggestions for the finishing hitch of the TH?

Two half hitches seems to jam horrible if there's a lot of tension, or one of the object or cord is soft or springy. A slipped single half hitch may not be secure enough for some situations...

!!  If 2HH jams, then so too would a slipped single hitch
--though this implies a lot of load (or a too-small line).
I'll try to explain the Two Half Hitches problem:
When finishing off with Two Half Hitches, the inner half hitch is pressed against the loop. The outer half hitch is easily removed, but the inner one is much more difficult if there's a lot of tension. If the object is soft or springy, it will expand when the tension decreases. When you try to work some rope through the remaining half hitch, the object will expand and then pull rope through the loop and further tightens the half hitch you just tried to open.

One solution would be to choose a hitch which can be untied under tension at the first anchor point. Untie this one first and then deal with the two half hitches at the mid-loop afterwards.

I do however like your solution with the rolling hitch. It can be used even in situations where there is no "first anchor point", and the TH is tied with just an end loop.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 08:30:54 PM by Hrungnir »

xarax

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #96 on: December 13, 2011, 12:51:09 AM »
half hitches seems to jam horrible if there's a lot of tension, or one of the object or cord is soft or springy.

   First, pass the working end through the loop for a second time and lock it there, in between the two bights, as shown in Reply#43 (1), then tie the half hitch around the one, two or all three lines coming from the anchor. This way the half hitch serves now as your second line of defense against slippage, it bears almost no load, so it will never jam.

http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1870.msg17364#msg17364
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xarax

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #97 on: December 13, 2011, 01:45:07 PM »
If you do that, you'll have random slack here...

  I have found that, if the rope is elastic enough and long enough, the slack is consumed. With my nylon-based ropes, the line remains tensioned for a long time. I keep tensioned vertical lines from the ceiling to the floor ( 3.3 m, 10 ft) - to test friction hitches around loaded lines. A minimum ammount of slippage through the first,  Versatackle-type lock is in fact welcomed, because it keeps the second, half hitch lock under tension as well.
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xarax

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #98 on: December 13, 2011, 05:51:30 PM »
  You want the second anchor to keep passing the rope fluidly, ideally without friction if that were possible. 

  Why ? The two bights (around the second anchor) communicate, so, eventually, sooner or later, the tensions within them will be equalized, however great the friction forces on the first and/or the second anchor points will be. And it would be safer to have the loads distributed on two points and three lines, rather than one point and two lines, would nt it?
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xarax

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #99 on: December 13, 2011, 07:10:58 PM »
If the slack is not eliminated while you're tying, then you will lose some tension later when the slack does even out. 

  With my somewhat springy nylon-based ropes, and with the lengths I have mentioned, I have not noticed that effect. The tensioned rope remains tensioned, probably because the slack is negligible compared with the length of the rope.

This is easily proven by wrapping rope around something and leaving ample slack in one wrap.  Later, spread that slack over the other wraps and notice the lengths of the other wraps increase.

   Wrong example. In the case you describe, the rope is in touch with the object along its entire length, so the friction ( with the surface of the object) does not let the slack of the one wrap be distributed evenly at each and all other wraps. I suppose that, most of the times, the three short lines that connect the (single or double) tucker s hitch loop with the anchor point are not in touch with the object - and I suspect that you can not make them be so, even if you try, because they are three tensioned parallel lines that not in the same lever.

Anything that moves with the tension of the rope is not an anchor.

   Right. My mistake - I have called the tip of the trucker s hitch loop as an anchor. I was talking about the three lines that connect this point with the (second) anchor.

Around that second anchor, you don't want any friction ideally
...if you keep wrapping the second anchor and the loop using the mechanism of Reply #43, you increase the friction around the second anchor  That's not good because you generate unwanted slack. 

   Again, why ? An already tensioned rope of some length, has enough room to give, and yet remain tensioned, even after the consumption of the small amount of slack we are talking about.

The two bights (around the second anchor) communicate, so, eventually, sooner or later, the tensions within them will be equalized, however great the friction forces on the first and/or the second anchor points will be. And it would be safer to have the loads distributed on two points and three lines, rather than one point and two lines, would nt it?

« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 08:00:37 PM by xarax »
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knot4u

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #100 on: December 13, 2011, 08:19:41 PM »
I re-read your response.  I think there's another communication gap.  I thought I made it clear, for the problem of unwanted slack, I'm talking about the case of many wraps.  I'm not talking about about the single nip shown in Reply #43.

TMCD

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #101 on: December 13, 2011, 10:15:51 PM »
I'll try and make either pictures or a video of me tying the TH using the Bag Knot or ABOK 1244. After fooling around with the Bellringer Knot I came to realize you can use either the Constrictor or the Bag Knot tied in the bight and you've got yourself a secure TH. The old problem with the Bellringer or Sheepshank style was the ear could easily be collapsed and the load comprimised. These two knots render the Bellringer secure when you push the bight up through the two crossing turns created by tying them in the bight. 

I've never posted pics on here or made a video but I'll give it a shot when I have some extra time.

xarax

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Re: Trucker's Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #102 on: December 13, 2011, 10:29:37 PM »
the case of many wraps.

  I was always talking about the two opposed bights, and the three lines between the (second) anchor point and the tip of the loop. The rope, after the knot nub of of the midline loop, goes two times around the anchor, but I do not believe that two is "many" :) .

   P.S. I am not emotionally attached to any idea... if it is not proven to be true, that is, experimentally  proven to be part of the physical reality  :) ( So, now ( 20I1-12-13),  I admit I am emotionally attached to the Higgs mechanism !  :) )
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Andy

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Re: Trucker Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #103 on: December 09, 2012, 11:09:40 AM »
[EDIT: I did reply "in a vacuum". It looks like that because Knot4U deleted his post. Sorry for the confusing reading.  :'( ]

Quote
tie multiple Trucker Hitches in a series

I do that all the time when hauling construction timber (for instance). Not so much going back to the same loop to increase purchase, as (i) a single truckie is usually tight enough for short distances, (ii) the tension on the (old) rope adds up and (iii) the material can get damaged; but going across / around the cargo and to another anchor point to tie the next truckie. I too love that. This is the method I was taught, we had to tie heavy garbage bins onto the ute / pickup and undo the truckie quite often to add and unload bins, so it had to be fast and efficient.

Quote
Just so we're on the same page, you're talking about ABOK #173.

I may be missing something, but I don't see ABOK #173 on that video (or my method). On 173, the bight goes through a clove hitch / two half hitches. What the video and I are doing is a quick twist of the rope, like the nipping part of a bowline, except twisted twice. Actually a single twist would probably do. Once tightened, it does not settle into 173, it is a different configuration altogether.
You could pass the bight through a clove hitch (173), but making it would probably require two hands, while making the double twist (nip) only requires one hand. Besides, the bight is usually secured to the tensioned rope with a half hitch, so there is no need for anything stronger than that twist / nipping turn.

Is this making sense to you? It really seems to me that we are talking about different things.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 08:56:34 PM by Andy »
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TMCD

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Re: Trucker Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #104 on: December 09, 2012, 02:53:47 PM »
Try tying ABOK 173 and then pull hard on the ear, it collapses into your method and the man on the video's method. I normally use 173 as it's shown in Ashley's book though, just running the bight through the Clove Hitch. If you're not satisfied with that, add a third hitch for a load that ultra heavy.