Author Topic: Favorite Way to Tie Trucker's Hitch  (Read 143553 times)

diff_lock

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Re: DELETED
« Reply #270 on: November 07, 2013, 01:00:10 PM »
What happened to the OP?

NotSure

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Re: DELETED
« Reply #271 on: November 07, 2013, 06:05:07 PM »
What happened to the OP?

I'm pretty sure he's still here. He just thinned out some of his contributions after this post:

http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4673.0.msg30240#msg30240

It's a real shame about that.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 06:14:25 PM by NotSure »

Hawk1832

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Re: Favorite Way to Tie Trucker's Hitch
« Reply #272 on: October 24, 2016, 03:02:44 PM »
My apologies for bringing this dead horse back up, but I would greatly appreciate your esteemed opinions of the method these fellows use to tie a truckie hitch.  I have been through the entire thread and don't think this has been covered.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=73hHtb_if1g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aokTnQIpkA
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 08:10:15 PM by Hawk1832 »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Favorite Way to Tie Trucker's Hitch
« Reply #273 on: October 31, 2016, 11:23:35 PM »
My apologies for bringing this dead horse back up, but I would greatly appreciate your esteemed opinions of the method these fellows use to tie a truckie hitch.  I have been through the entire thread and don't think this has been covered.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=73hHtb_if1g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aokTnQIpkA

Frankly, I've enough doubt about the surety of the particular
mid-line eye used by the method these two videos show
(sorry, I didn't discern a difference between them except
perhaps in the exact position of the anchoring working end
from the eye)
that I prefer to use a non-capsizable eye --e.g., with the
cases shown above, they could tie a full (twin-eye) bowline,
and maybe even gain a little lessening of frictional damage
at this sheave point (the haul line passing through two vs.
one eye)!?
I usually just tie a slip-knot of either an overhand or fig.8.

I also usually tie off the end to the rope and not to
the anchor.  Then, again, had the end been run up through
that rope-sheave a 2nd pass, one would have a sort of
versatackle mechanics & self-locking (which might prove
to be more of a tightening & loosening bother than it's worth).

--dl*
====

knot rigger

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Re: Favorite Way to Tie Trucker's Hitch
« Reply #274 on: November 14, 2016, 01:16:08 AM »
Hawk1832, thanks for reviving this thread, and thanks for the videos.

I'm a huge fan of your method of tying the truckers hitch.  It's TIB (tyeable in the bight) so it's possible to tye a series in a long rope to secure a load (as I've seen done on trucks in Sao Paulo).  And, it's incredibly easy to untie, as once de-tensioned, the "sheave" knot will fall apart with little effort, and the working end need not be taken back through the loop to untie.

The "sheave knot" is a Bell Ringer's Knot (ABoK #172) with an added nipping turn as in the fashion of an Awning Knot (ABoK #83) or a Rigger's Hitch (ABoK # 1735)

When I first encountered this knot I shared Dan Lehman's skepticism and fear of the "sheave" knot capsizing, but I've grown to trust it through experience.  This knot is used exclusively by Cirque du Soleil's tent technicians to support the side walls of their big top tents.  The side wall (and hence this hitch) must withstand high winds, and flogging due to wind gusts.  In the event of extreme weather, the tent walls must be able to be dropped swiftly to avoid catastrophic damage.  Any other "sheave" knot would jam, requiring crucial extra time to untie the (inevitably) jammed knot.  Not to mention extra time taken to run the working end back through the sheave loop.  While dropping the side walls of the Big Top for extreme weather is very rare,  the walls are taken down regularly for the purposes of moving the show. The speed and utility of this jamless, TIB, and exceedingly easy to untie one-handed hitch are matchless.

Knot have many names, and many stories behind names... The origin of the videos depicting this knot are intriguing and amusing to me, because among the circus tent technicians this version of this knot is called an "Australian Trucker's Hitch"

cheers
andy

KC

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Re: Favorite Way to Tie Trucker's Hitch
« Reply #275 on: December 02, 2016, 12:31:27 PM »
i've also been very skeptical of such 'loose' ties;
but have seen this on plenty of trucks and find the Cirque du Soleil's tent technicians reference very enlightening.
In both these we have possible rain swelling of nylon and wind vibrations testing the theories!
But, i also manufacture and use this knot differently..
.
Arborist call any such 3/1 pull config a Zrig, any pulley system etc. a jig, in our world Zrig can have adjustable Prusic instead of fixed position eye.
Have used this system for tiedowns, pulling stuck vehicles free from mud, lifting engines, pulling down massive trees some leaning in wrong direction and had to guide against their lean, pulling stuck transmission etc.  Also as a 3/1 pulling another or even a 5/1(=15/1), pre-tighten another larger line used for rigging for less drop /impact on line when takes load etc.  Have also pulled Trucker's Hitch with a 2 ton truck, to lift limbs from over screened enclosures over pools, skylights etc., where we couldn't lower and no one could get a crane in.  So used existing tree architecture as fixed boom and 2 ton truck pulling into 3/1 rig like this to make large lifts.  i always said the last direction to drop something is up!
.
one of Xarax's Noose w/HH's comes closest to what i found for my purposes and theories:
.

   A problem of the (two) loops based upon the slipped overhand knot, is the very sharp first curves of the free ends, and the ends of the bight.  An easy way to address this problem, is to form a nipping loop above the slipped overhand knot, and to pass the bight through it. Besides the fact that now the first curves are smoother, this possibility might be considered as an advantage of tying a slipped overhand loop - because it gives us the flexibility to beef it up that way, if, at any time after we have tied the simpler loop in the first place, we would decide that we should better need a more stable and stronger loop for our trucker s hitch.
.
i had switched from Butterfly to this somewhere along the way, as found Bfly sometimes hard to untie after pulling w/truck, and not best angle of pull on eye.
i find this to be also simply a Bfly with unlinked rings;
another viewable mechanic is can see as a Zeppelin with one side reversed to meet/ form eye.
For me this is easier like Zepp untie, than Bfly, less picking the lock.
.
Bfly is very good knot use for many things, even jug sling for me etc. but think eye should pull perpendicular if at all.
i first did this as an upgrade to noose instead of Bfly in Trucker's and also pinata hanging, simply thru the HH around eye as fix w/o teardown.
.
Eventually evolved to fortifying the highest loading side; i guess as Xarax suggests.
Now simply a fig.10 noose w/HH construction; but still i think Bfly and Zepp forms also discernible.
Unties easier than Bfly i think, easier to adjust eye, more correct proper pull angle on eye.
.

.
Going up over a load and back down with 3/1 is a 6/1 potential less the frictions, angles.
i don't look at friction as foe, but rather buffer.
Harder to take line 'purchase' thru friction buffer, but then once you have purchase friction buffer also helps hold it.
So, if send momentary peak force thru line, that can't really hold, might trick more purchase that frictions holds for you.
2 ways to send peak force 'wave' thru line is to impact bodyWeight or snatch hard with effort.
The faster the better; 2 matching trucks , 1 that weighs half as much going 2x as fast has 2x the force, so hit into jig hard and confidentally!
.
Also, sharply bending line to sweat or swig more purchase, then let frictions help hold.
Should then look at jig side might be 2x tension of offside, so stretch and vibrate line to equalize line on both sides of load, and pull jig again!
.
IF pull end of jig, have 3xEffort potential up to bodyweight hang.  Can add 3xEffort to that by pulling other anchor.
But if put that same pull inside system at rite point get 4xEffort +3xBodyWeight, can impact with either/both.
Impact hits can come at same time to hit hardest against load, or sequentially to get something moving and keep moving etc.
.
If really want to tighten for tiedown, make ropes iron bar tight by above methods.  Then make shallow bends.  The tighter the line, the more line resists bend; the more leveraged return in line tension!
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 03:01:19 PM by KC »
Rope-n-Saw Life
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt.~

Hawk1832

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Re: Favorite Way to Tie Trucker's Hitch
« Reply #276 on: December 09, 2016, 02:37:13 PM »
THanks for your interesting responses about these videos.  THe reference to the circus technicians use of these knots was fascinating.

I once saw on an arborist site a photo of a truckers hitch with a loop like KC's Z10 example without the HH.  THe fellow then pulled the working end through the loop to form a second loop and did that again to form a third loop.  CAn someone tell me what effect this would have on the mechanical advantge.

KC

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Re: Favorite Way to Tie Trucker's Hitch
« Reply #277 on: December 15, 2016, 10:29:10 AM »
Same pattern of mechanical pulls, change in loop is kinda like change in color..
.
The 3:1  mechanical advantage; is in the 3 legs of line pulling on one side of 'jig',
>>feeding to 1 line of output pull to equal/opposite side of jig.
The loop variation is just a different way to make the ring position for the rope to seat in.
Same as if we didn't make any knot and put a  Prusik cord(making jig adjustable) in place instead.
This doesn't change the 3:1 architecture/mechanic; only the loop type chosen in the structure for the same output mechanic.
.
'z10' structure can also be seen as a Butterfly with unlinked rings, and 1 side fortified to fig.10 base.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 10:48:29 AM by KC »
Rope-n-Saw Life
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt.~

Hawk1832

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Re: Favorite Way to Tie Trucker's Hitch
« Reply #278 on: December 17, 2016, 03:32:13 PM »
Now I get it. Thanks KC.