Author Topic: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot  (Read 2663 times)

Wirenut1

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« on: September 07, 2016, 02:12:26 AM »
Hi, this is my first day on this forum. I saw a mysterious knot demonstrated at a tree climbing competition this week. It functions like a running bowline for choking on a branch or chunk for rigging down. It has a slippery feature to quickly spill the knot. I am having difficulty attaching the image. Eric

Wirenut1

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2016, 02:13:36 AM »
I may have conquered the attachment problem!

Wirenut1

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2016, 02:25:13 AM »
I am working on getting a link to the video of the original demonstration posted

Wirenut1

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2016, 02:29:20 AM »
Here is the video.
http://youtu.be/vvEnxilTDY4
Hope this is clear enough to figure it out.

Wirenut1

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2016, 10:55:09 AM »
Looks like a similar idea as ABoK#399. Does it have a name?

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3768
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2016, 09:54:02 PM »
So far, the images are lousy for seeing the knot, alas.

But it seems to be the sort of thing one can play around
with by taking a nipping turn around a nipping turn which
then is toggled by a slip-tuck (bight) and so on.  And of
which one should be chary of light-manual-loaded appearances
belying some heavy-load vulnerability!

Beyond this is the practical question of how it in any way
improves upon the traditionally used running bowline.

Thanks,
--dl*
====

Wirenut1

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2016, 11:20:23 PM »
I agree that my still photography and videography have not produced a useful documentation! Unfortunately, I may never again meet the man who showed this to me. I have been hesitant to attach pictures of my own knot for fear that I tied it wrong and will further muddy the waters. I guess I need to just show it and hope its correct! I appreciate your helpful warning about this knot. I have much less experience, but the thought occurred to me as well. I don't intend to use it until I have fully verified its security. In fact while trying to tie it I did find that the loop can close up in a most un-bowline like manner before it is dressed and set. This happens when one of the nipping turns rolls! Still when dressed and set pull is applied to the loop in the manner intended, it seems to hold its size. The man who showed me insisted that he had used it for years with very heavy loads. I did not ask him specifically about the loop cinching closed around the standing part but I hope he would have mentioned that!
Thanks DL

knotsaver

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 281
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2016, 09:56:33 AM »
Hi Wirenut1,
I think that the core of the knot shown in the video is a slipped Lapp Bend (or, if you prefer, the knot looks like a Reversed (tail and SPart inverted) Running Slipped Left (ABoK 1034.5) Bowline!!! (with the slipped SPart (!?) it's not a Bowline)). Please look at the attached pictures (sorry for the quality: it's a rainy day!).
Hope this helps,
ciao,
s.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 10:53:20 AM by knotsaver »

Wirenut1

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2016, 11:12:50 AM »
Knot saver:
Thank you! I think that's it.  That makes the one I tied in the red rope wrong!

kjschaefer

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2016, 09:58:15 PM »
To me the shown knot resembles a mooring hitch tied around the standing part, resulting in a "running mooring hitch"?
Regards, Knud

knotsaver

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 281
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2016, 05:53:47 AM »
To me the shown knot resembles a mooring hitch tied around the standing part, resulting in a "running mooring hitch"?
Regards, Knud

Hi Knud,
when the knot is in a loose form, as in my pictures above, it resembles (it is) a Mooring Hitch, but when it is tightened (as in the video) it is not! I mean, in the M.H. there isn't a fixed eye (there isn't a U turn) as in this knot.
Ciao,
s.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 10:18:27 AM by knotsaver »

KC

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 185
    • latest project
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2016, 10:09:30 AM »
Beyond this is the practical question of how it in any way
improves upon the traditionally used running bowline.
Thanks,
--dl

i think the quick release is main point;
this has floated to top of arborist forums before.
.
i'm not really sure embraced enough to say arborist knot,
rather a knot seen on arborist site.
.
i would not favour it for overhead lowering ;
especially after sudden loading cut/catch,
in rough and tumble environment of working down and around other branches and hazards etc.
.
In any case unless hitched at center of balance, where line is perpendicular to load;
load would hang vertical in line with rope, so should precede with Half Hitch or Marl ;
as virtually all inline/not perpendicular hitch to load scenarios.
Rope-n-Saw Life
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt.~

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3768
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2016, 04:09:46 PM »
The man who showed me insisted that he had used it for years with very heavy loads.
I did not ask him specifically about the loop cinching closed around the standing part
but I hope he would have mentioned that!
Thanks DL
It's not the strength --when well-set-- that concerns
me, but the security --it seems (looking, only, so far) too
vulnerable to incidental loosening (and THEN a heavy load
is not welcome!).  And the common alternative should
hardly be an untying problem.

But the general notion of making such a knot --and here
we can find different versions, easily enough-- is good to
see and know.

Thank,
--dl*
====

knotsaver

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 281
Re: Help Identify an unusual arborist knot
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2016, 11:13:26 PM »
... the knot looks like a Reversed (tail and SPart inverted) Running Slipped Left (ABoK 1034.5) Bowline!!!

I was thinking about this knot and I watched the video (http://youtu.be/vvEnxilTDY4) again and I noticed that the knot is (for precision's sake) a Reversed (tail and SPart inverted) Running Slipped Standard (ABoK #1010) Bowline. The tying method is different only in the last tuck: the bight enters the U turn from the other side. Perhaps it works better than the Reversed (tail and SPart inverted) Running Slipped Left (ABoK 1034.5) Bowline.
Ciao,
s.