Author Topic: Zen Knotting...  (Read 5126 times)

Jimbo

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Zen Knotting...
« on: September 12, 2005, 12:41:53 AM »
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A friend, a buddhist monk is fond of saying  "words are only heard by the ears, they must be heard by the heart ( meaning that they must be "experienced from within") or it is just so much water poured on a duck's head"


Zen Knotting?  Here's another Zen bumper sticker: "The more you talk about it, the further away from it you get".

So show me the sound of one sheet flapping...   ;)

But seriously, folks...  Am I some kind of kinking freak (watch it, PABPRES!  ;D), or are there other knotters here who "see" knots?

Please don't take this as a brag, because I can guarantee you it's an acute pain in the "rectal sphincter" most of the time!  But yours truly has been kinking cordage since about age 3 or so, and I just don't think: "I'm going to need to tie a Three-Legged Turk's Head knot here!"  Unless I'm learning a Three-Legged Turk's Head knot, trying to find places to use it, that is!!  Today, for example!

I "see" knots as pieces of cordage holding things together, with other pieces of cordage "backing them up" as by holding those pieces together.  They literally do "just come out of my hands" whenever I need them!  If I don't need a knot, I have to work very hard to make them.

It's Zenlike, in that it is very hard to communicate verbally.  And the more I try to describe it, the more blank stares I get from the audience.  "This part holds the two sticks together, then that part keeps this part from coming a-part..."

Is there anyone else "out there" who just fastens cordage to stuff "because this'll work"?

Yes, this is intentionally contrapuntal to the taxonomy suggested in many other posts (my own included), but it's part of the reason why I have such a hard time with knot knames.  As some of you here have "called me to task" over that very shortcoming, maybe now you'll understand why, should you care.

So I'd never expect to find other "Zen Knotters"; just hoping to see if anyone else is "into" The Zen of Knotting...

And lest any of you think I'm anything less than extremely appreciative, let me now thank you all for inspiring me to tie, all by myself, a 7B * 27L THK, doubled twice, in dayglo yellow braided brickmason's cord, on my "hopped up" 2C Maglight.  It looks like sh1t in a sock, because I'm just artistic enough to see how screwed up I made it, but it's "loud" enough to shout "there's something different here!!" (As if the eyeball-melting light coming out of the end weren't enough!).  I'm extremely grateful to you all for leading me to this feeling of accomplishment, now that it's done & stuffed back in the glove compartment!!  Thank you!!!  (However, let me assure you that my other "way", what I call "Flashlight Service" because that's all it is, is very much faster, and just as yellow.)

(BTW: The "correct" number of bights for anything you'll hold with your hand is seven.  I kid you knot!  Make a circle with your index finger & thumb & you'll see that for yourself.  The two tips are the first two, the next bones are 3 and 4, the big bone in the index finger is 5, then the index knuckle & the thumb muscle are 6 and 7.  See?)

But enough about me.  Does a kink in a cord have Buddha-nature or knot?  If you say "yes", you deny your own Buddha-nature, if you say "no", you should tie ABOK #2469 around your waist & throw yourself into a hurricane.   ;D

Hit me!
Thank you all, for everything.  As of 6/6/6, I have changed my password to a random string (which I forgot), thereby assuring that anyone posting as "Jimbo" in the future will NOT be me.  Good luck!!!

Lasse_C

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Re: Zen Knotting...
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2005, 04:38:35 PM »
I think I know what you are talking about. Usually I plan my knotting very carefully, but in quite a few cases I sort of just have a picture in my head, start working, and go along at what feels right. A very good example is the long TH I made on the handle of my Viking Hatchet: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lasse_carenvall/detail?.dir=accc&.dnm=f2ec.jpg&.src=ph

I simply spaced the strands at what felt like suitable distance from each other and worked on. It is 8B, but I really have no idea about the number of leads! (To be honest I have never really bothered to count them, either, as it felt unimportant... )

Another example would be when cutting a cord for a knot without trying to measure or calculate the length. I just pull out what feels appropriate, cut it off, and in most cases finish the knot with just a few inches to spare! When I try to measure and calculate I usually end up with a lot of extra cordage, as I tend to put in some safety measure.

So: Think less, tie more! ;D

LC
« Last Edit: September 14, 2005, 04:39:46 PM by Lasse_C »

Jimbo

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Re: Zen Knotting...
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2005, 06:51:23 PM »
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Viking Hatchet: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lasse_carenvall/detail?.dir=accc&.dnm=f2ec.jpg&.src=ph

OOOOOOOO!!!!!

The Camp Hatchet is nice, too!

I especially liked your Sea Bag Becket!  The clevis pin & padlock was a brilliant touch!!  It's hard to steal someone's Sea Bag (or Sea Chest) when the handle is in the owner's pocket!!

Did you make the Viking Hatchet yourself, or just upgrade the handle?  I do some amateur blacksmithing and I'd love to know how you put the engraving in the side of the eye.  Is the head cast or forged?

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I simply spaced the strands at what felt like suitable distance from each other and worked on.

You're obviously a lot further down that path than I am!  I still can't start a long THK without a pattern & a lot of pins.  Between Budworth's & Ashley's books, plus the Alaska Museum of Fancy Knots wonderful WWWeb site, plus a lot of "do-overs" (aka "ooops!"), I'm just starting to visualize how to know whether to go Over or Under and when.  But I'm getting there!  Your "hatchet jobs" (pun intended) have inspired me to go raid the tool crib again!
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It is 8B, but I really have no idea about the number of leads! (To be honest I have never really bothered to count them, either, as it felt unimportant... )

Yeah!!  That's another Good Point!!  What is a "lead" anyway, and how are we supposed to tell??  And how many different ways can we use the word "lead" (not the metal -- "leeed", not "lehd") in knotting anyway??  And when you "double" the THK, are you not "leading" the end back around beside itself?  And if a knot ties "right", doesn't that mean it "has a good lead"??  Aren't there some other words we might use?  (Extends finger, flaps lips & goes "bbbuh-bbbuhbbbuhbbuhbbuh") :-/

As to long THKs, I print out the pattern I referenced earlier, and just took a pen & wrote the lead numbers down the side.  So if I want a 27L THK, I just put my pins on the point of the 'V' by the number 27.  Brainless & painless, just the way I like it!

BTW, I wish I could personally thank the guy who made that WWWeb page!!  I sincerely believe s/he put me further down this path than everyone else combined!
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... cutting a cord for a knot without trying to measure or calculate the length. I just pull out what feels appropriate, cut it off, and in most cases finish the knot with just a few inches to spare!

Yep!  Ditto.  Sorta...
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When I try to measure and calculate I usually end up with a lot of extra cordage

When I bound up my flashlight, I pulled off a certain number of (spreads arms wide) that size folds.  When I got done, I had your couple of inches almost exactly.  Pretty smart?  Nope!  I forgot that "certain number"!!   ;D  That was before PABPRES clued me in to his "Knot Knotes" book.  (smacks self on forehead)

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So: Think less, tie more! ;D

Yeah, as you can tell, thinking just gets me in trouble.

:D
Thank you all, for everything.  As of 6/6/6, I have changed my password to a random string (which I forgot), thereby assuring that anyone posting as "Jimbo" in the future will NOT be me.  Good luck!!!

Lasse_C

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Re: Zen Knotting...
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2005, 09:55:33 AM »
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I especially liked your Sea Bag Becket!  The clevis pin & padlock was a brilliant touch!!  It's hard to steal someone's Sea Bag (or Sea Chest) when the handle is in the owner's pocket!!
Actually, with the risk of theft in mind, the Sea Bag Becket is made around a tripled core of 2.5 mm steel wire, making it not only strong, but also rather hard to cut. The idea is that when the bag is left someplace, the opening is locked and the handle can be locked around something to make sure the bag remains in place. I am rather satisfied with that solution.  ;)


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Did you make the Viking Hatchet yourself, or just upgrade the handle?  I do some amateur blacksmithing and I'd love to know how you put the engraving in the side of the eye.  Is the head cast or forged?
The Viking Hatchet was a gift from my wife on my 40:th birthday. In other words I did not make it myself. As it is bought directly from the smith (whom my mother-in-law happened to know) I know that it is hand forged from tool grade carbon steel, and differentially tempered to give a harder edge and slightly softer head. The hatchet takes an edge you can shave with (literally - I have done it!), and holds it quite well.


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I still can't start a long THK without a pattern & a lot of pins.  Between Budworth's & Ashley's books, plus the Alaska Museum of Fancy Knots wonderful WWWeb site, plus a lot of "do-overs" (aka "ooops!"), I'm just starting to visualize how to know whether to go Over or Under and when.  But I'm getting there!  Your "hatchet jobs" (pun intended) have inspired me to go raid the tool crib again!
Go for it. I almost blush when I tell how I did the long TH:s on the hatchet handles: 1) I tied two rounds of thin, elastic cotton string on each desired edge of the TH. 2) I wrapped the cord around at what looked like 45 degree angle (or something). 3) I wrapped back. 4) I followed an over-under sequence in respect to the last pass, and kept working, tucking the cord under the strings at the edges.

When the knot looked well laid out I spaced all crossings evenly and doubled it, before tightening it gradually. That is about it...

LC

KnotNow!

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Re: Zen Knotting...
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2005, 07:12:46 PM »
Have mastered ABOK # 2469.. looking for a hurricane... but are you sure about #2469?  A flat butterfly.. Can't see that it will save me.  But of you have a point about the zen of knotting.  As I teach this stuff I find some see it and some don't.  Hard to believe.  But some times the knot see'rs can beome KnotSeers.
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

Jimbo

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Re: Zen Knotting...
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2005, 02:18:06 AM »
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hurricane...

hurricane... tropical cyclone... big honkin' wind...
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A flat butterfly..


tick-tick-tick.....

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some times the knot see'rs can beome KnotSeers.


Speaking of which, I have a few cross-eyed splices (on and off the bight) to tie.
Thank you all, for everything.  As of 6/6/6, I have changed my password to a random string (which I forgot), thereby assuring that anyone posting as "Jimbo" in the future will NOT be me.  Good luck!!!