Author Topic: A Splice ?  (Read 7514 times)

Dan_Lehman

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Re: A Splice ?
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2010, 05:19:17 AM »
I think that by those definitions #7, which to my eye, is separate cord
making a Turks Head around thicker rope, is a knot.

But the Derek Definitions suggest that we're better off taking stock of
some extant sets and then considering how those conceptions help
or hinder thinking & discussion (of different endeavors & audiences).
E.g., "cordage" I think will be found to be defined frequently and to
imply roundness , which we might find lacking in a need to talk
of a knottable media -- which includes e.g. tape/webbing, a flat
material.  Trying to redefine "cordage" might be spitting into the wind,
and a new term (absent one ready to go) will be needed.

I certainly see "knot" & "splice" as mutually exclusive (albeit perhaps
with some fuzzy boundary or oddball case); "multi-strand knots" might
be something in-between, to let the interwoven or embedded
aspects uniquely define "splice".  This "inside"/"outside" distinction gives
a new perspective to regard the rockclimbers' "Beer Knot", in which
tubular tape is inserted into itself (well, typically to close a circle of
material for a round sling), and then a pre-tied Overhand knot in one
of the ends is migrated into position of the overlapping, one
end within the other, portion of the tape.  I'm seeing that as a knot,
but maybe one that transgresses a boundary -- something to remark
at without losing sleep.

--dl*
====



DerekSmith

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Re: A Splice ?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2010, 02:38:05 PM »
I think that by those definitions #7, which to my eye, is separate cord
making a Turks Head around thicker rope, is a knot.

--dl*
====

On careful look Dan, I must admit to my mistake - No.7 is indeed thinner cardage forming a TH KNOT on the thicker cord.

Quote
But the Derek Definitions suggest that we're better off taking stock of
some extant sets and then considering how those conceptions help
or hinder thinking & discussion (of different endeavors & audiences).
E.g., "cordage" I think will be found to be defined frequently and to
imply roundness , which we might find lacking in a need to talk
of a knottable media -- which includes e.g. tape/webbing, a flat
material.  Trying to redefine "cordage" might be spitting into the wind,
and a new term (absent one ready to go) will be needed.

I certainly see "knot" & "splice" as mutually exclusive (albeit perhaps
with some fuzzy boundary or oddball case); "multi-strand knots" might
be something in-between, to let the interwoven or embedded
aspects uniquely define "splice".  This "inside"/"outside" distinction gives...

I think here you have the nail right on the proverbial head.

Either we select an existing (appropriate) word and redefine it to our specific needs...

i.e.    CORDAGE (sing.  cord) - ALL flexible linear material used for fixing or transmitting force.
               THREAD  -- subset of cordage, thinner than the main cordage involved
               TAPE  -- subset of cordage, flat section material
               MONOFILAMENT  -- subset of cordage, single strand material
               LIANA VINE  -- subset of cordage, ....
               ....

- then run headlong into misunderstandings from prior usage (but then 'bend' has this issue yet we manage within our own confines).
Or we chose a totally new term - (absent one ready to go)...  but in order not to cause the same confusion would need to be a brand new word, how does Ceylluaa grab you ? (unknown to Google)

I feel that perhaps in this respect and in your ever correct detailing over the absolute difference between knot and splice, I might venture to re-quote an important statement you have already made -

"In this endeavour, (as I wrote elsewhere) let not Perfection be the bane of Good."  --  or perhaps 'Good-enough' --  as a starting point.

Perhaps for the sake of our own sanity, we should abandon 'the man in the street' - and anybody not involved in this process - to their own fates, and concentrate on developing a system that at least works for us.  Then worry about global confusion when the world is confronted with our 'secret' language as and when they eventually find out what we have been doing ? ?

Derek

sharky

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Re: A Splice ?
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2010, 03:00:01 AM »
Gee...a hybrid knot/splice...that's knice... ;D
Sharky