Author Topic: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace  (Read 19780 times)

Hykue

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Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« on: November 18, 2009, 11:59:34 PM »
Hello, all.  I'm sure I should be able to come up with this myself, but I can't seem to.  I want to tie a ring (of the finger kind) onto a necklace.  The cord is called rattail by sewing people, and it's slippery and woven (is that laid?  What do I know?).  It's important that the ring and the cord be parallel.   I would also prefer that the knot be either small and unobtrusive or else decorative.  The knot can be permanent, but it's not essential that it be secure, as long as the ring can't fall right off the necklace.  Otherwise a cow hitch would work just fine.  It doesn't matter much whether the knot is snug against the ring or has a bit of play.  I hope I described this well enough, I have little experience talking about knots.  If more information is required, let me know.  Thanks in advance, knot gurus.

roo

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 01:27:42 AM »
Hello, all.  I'm sure I should be able to come up with this myself, but I can't seem to.  I want to tie a ring (of the finger kind) onto a necklace.  The cord is called rattail by sewing people, and it's slippery and woven (is that laid?  What do I know?).  It's important that the ring and the cord be parallel.   I would also prefer that the knot be either small and unobtrusive or else decorative.  The knot can be permanent, but it's not essential that it be secure, as long as the ring can't fall right off the necklace.  Otherwise a cow hitch would work just fine.  It doesn't matter much whether the knot is snug against the ring or has a bit of play.  I hope I described this well enough, I have little experience talking about knots.  If more information is required, let me know.  Thanks in advance, knot gurus.

To clarify, do you want the cord to be tangent to the "circle" or do you want it to intersect the "circle" at a right angle, like a cow hitch or bull hitch would?

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/bullhitch.html
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 01:42:22 AM by roo »
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Hykue

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2009, 06:57:20 AM »
I suppose ideally, the cord would be tangent to the circle, but I'm not that concerned with this aspect, so long as I can move the two ends of the cord apart to nearly 180 degrees to make a necklace without endangering the ring's safety.  (Which is why the cow hitch didn't work.  I wanted to do that, it was so simple and lovely.  But the ring is my wedding ring, so I really don't want to risk losing it.  I reinvented the bull hitch (apparently) for my husband's ring, but it's not 100% secure (although nearly) because the rattail is springy (not elastic, but slightly resistant to sharp curves), and I think it looks funny.)  Mostly I just want the ring to lay flat on my chest rather than poking me in the sternum, and to stay on the cord no matter what.  So I suppose either way (tangent or "perpendicular") is fine.  Even a standing loop which is at right angles to the working and standing ends would be fine.  Thanks again for your consideration, and for asking me for clarification.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 07:51:09 AM by Hykue »

DerekSmith

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 09:29:18 AM »
Hello Hykue

I don't understand why the 'cow Hitch' was not any us for you.  It cannot come off the ring and it cannot undo on the cord so long as the necklace is closed.

Could you explain a little more why you rejected it, especially as it seems to have your favour.

Oh, and WELCOME to the dusty cordy corner of the universe...

Derek
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 03:38:57 PM by DerekSmith »

Sweeney

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 01:04:54 PM »
I too wonder why not the cow hitch although if the necklace is removed the ring might come off as the hitch loosens. But if you make the cow hitch into a form of cats paw by taking the ring around and back throught he loop again it will grip more tightly and not come undone as easily. The following link has a short video showing how to do this with a ring. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjM12bRrAAo

Barry

roo

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2009, 03:54:04 PM »
I suppose ideally, the cord would be tangent to the circle, but I'm not that concerned with this aspect, so long as I can move the two ends of the cord apart to nearly 180 degrees to make a necklace without endangering the ring's safety.  (Which is why the cow hitch didn't work.  I wanted to do that, it was so simple and lovely.  But the ring is my wedding ring, so I really don't want to risk losing it.  I reinvented the bull hitch (apparently) for my husband's ring, but it's not 100% secure (although nearly) because the rattail is springy (not elastic, but slightly resistant to sharp curves), and I think it looks funny.)  Mostly I just want the ring to lay flat on my chest rather than poking me in the sternum, and to stay on the cord no matter what.  So I suppose either way (tangent or "perpendicular") is fine.  Even a standing loop which is at right angles to the working and standing ends would be fine.  Thanks again for your consideration, and for asking me for clarification.

OK, the Bull Hitch's look isn't for you.  For absolute security, you could run the ring down to the center the cord and then tie the ring into a Butterfly Loop, carefully working the loop down to it's minimal size:

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/butterflyloop.html

You should be able to fiddle with the angle of the loop such that it does not poke you in the sternum, and it has more of a tangent look.

A simply granny knot (after running the ring down to the center of the cord) would be another option with a small profile.  It will require a little massaging to make it look nice:

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/reefknot.html

If you don't like the looks of a specific knot dominating, you might try using a smaller cord.  Since you mention problems with the material you are using, you might look into other cord types, too.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 03:57:12 PM by roo »
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Hykue

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2009, 09:48:01 PM »
Excellent.  I like both the cat's paw and the butterfly loop.  The cat's paw is large but pretty and the butterfly loop is small and pretty as well.  Thank you for the welcome, and the suggestions.  The cow hitch wasn't a lot of use primarily because of the cord I'm using, I think.  The "springiness" I mentioned earlier is one part of it, the cow hitch doesn't snug up as nicely as in other materials.  Another part is that the ring is a wide band (it's jade, not the standard narrow gold band).  This, in combination with the large diameter cord (relative to the size of the ring), means that when the standing ends (or is that standing and working?) are pulled apart to go around my neck, the knot widens out a little.  It doesn't come right off, but it will if it gets nudged in just the wrong way.  Just the movements of my body could be enough for me to lose the ring, given years of "attempts".  I thought the cow hitch would be perfect until I actually tried it.

As for the cord, it might be smart to use something different, but I couldn't think of anything with the qualities I wanted.  It's nice that it's a fairly large diameter because it doesn't cut into my neck.  It's very strong, so I don't have to worry about it breaking easily.  I'm really hard on necklaces.  In fact, on almost anything I'm wearing.  I understand the worry here, that it will be stronger than my windpipe, but I figure if I tie it on with little enough slack, it won't get me.  Rattail is very durable, my husband has been wearing his engagement ring on his original strand for at least five years, and it only needs replacing now.  He never removes it, for working, for showers, for anything.  Finally, it's kind of a pretty kind of cord, it has a nice sheen to it.  If someone else can tell me of another cord that is at least 1mm in diameter, strong and durable, and preferably kind of pretty in a simple, dark, single-color kind of way, I would try something else.

For now, however, I think the problem is solved.  I will try the cat's paw first, and then I will try the butterfly loop, and see which I like best in practice.  Thank you very much.

Incidentally, I'm now fairly happy that I couldn't find my knot book to help me out with this problem.  You guys (and/or gals) are great!

roo

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2009, 10:09:58 PM »
Excellent.  I like both the cat's paw and the butterfly loop. 

Was the granny knot, um,  aesthetically deficient?
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Hykue

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2009, 10:35:24 PM »
I thought if I couldn't say anything nice . . . yes.  I'm afraid something about it didn't look nice to me.  Maybe I could have made it look good, but it was a little more asymmetrical (visually) than the butterfly.  Also, I would be embarrassed to use a granny knot, because I unintentionally tie them nearly every time I try to make a reef knot.  So to intentionally use it would make me self-conscious.  Even though I know no-one by my dad would notice, I would still know.  Don't get me wrong, I know that it has its uses, but I have a bit of a personal vendetta against it, because it always creeps in when I'm not paying attention to my tying.  I didn't want to mention it, but you all seem nice enough, and I don't want to offend the poor knot.  It's not its fault I can't tie a reef knot unless I truly concentrate.

roo

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2009, 10:38:58 PM »
I thought if I couldn't say anything nice . . . yes. 
Yeah.  That's fine.  I don't question people's artisitic preferences.  At least it is compact, so the asymmetry doesn't punch you in the face.   ;)
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2009, 10:48:16 PM »
Hello, all.  I'm sure I should be able to come up with this myself, but I can't seem to.
I want to tie a ring (of the finger kind) onto a necklace.  The cord is called rattail ...

Here's what you want.

position the rattail cord with the part for the knot at the ring (i.e.,
size it for however you want the ends to end up -- behind the wearer's
neck, presumably);

with the ring seen as a clock,
lay a bight/ U/ loop of the cord up over the upper arc of ring,
ends running straight down below, all cord OVER /on-top-of ring;

fold the top of this loop of cord back behind itself such that it
forms -- on the left -- a '9' and the mirror image of that on the right,
all above the ring (above 12:00 position);

now, bring each left/right end respectively up
through the ring (down in at center space & up behind upper arc)
and through each's "9" loop-hole (hole space of "9") ;

tighten this around the upper arc of ring, pressing down on the
top of the hitch while pulling upwards on the brought-together ends.

.:.  This gives you a snug, secure hitch with nice presentation,
and a ring that cannot come off even if the knot is loosened,
without untying it -- unlike with the simple Ring Hitch suggested above.

--dl*
====

roo

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2009, 11:03:35 PM »
Dan,

To check:  It looks like you effectively have the ring going through two back-to-back symmetrically-tied overhand stopper knots.  Yes?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 07:58:22 PM by roo »
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Hykue

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2009, 11:10:44 PM »
Cool.  I didn't think I had understood, but when I finished it all made sense.  This is completely secure, so I like it the best  of all.  It's not just exceedingly unlikely that the ring will come off as long as the necklace is tied closed, it's impossible.  Thanks!

roo

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2009, 11:13:43 PM »
...as long as the necklace is tied closed, it's impossible. 
Ditto with the Butterfly Loop, BTW.
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roo

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Re: Newbie tying a ring on a necklace
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2009, 05:46:56 PM »
Here's another compact knot that will have one strand crossing the ring:

Run the ring down to the center of the cord, bring the cord ends up and tie this:

http://images.lowes.com/general/l/lamp_kit_knot.jpg

« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 12:31:50 AM by roo »
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