snip...
SOMEthing is
at work in the trawlers' lines I've seen, for there is just too many
capsized bowlines, IMO.
snip...
--dl*
====
Yes Dan, I totally agree.
That SOMEthing is TWIST and it doesn't matter what handedness of BWL you are using, if the BWL is loose and the right twist is fed up the rope to the knot, it will cause the Round Turn of the collar to open and form the 'flat spiral' you refer to, in prelude to the oft seen transition.
However, getting a right or left handed twist to feed forward into the knot . . .
. . . seems beyond the pale of possibility: what I'm seeing are
trawler dock lines, run bow/stern to pile, boat to boat (they *park*
sometimes five abeam), and I cannot conceive of men handling
lines imparting to such lines torsion sufficient to have this effect
-- especially, as you remark, that one would need to somehow
direct (most of) it into the knot! (But I'm happy that you're looking
at this from another perspective, and bring this up openly!)
Rather, I think it's more likely some aspect of isolated loading
as I suggested --i.e., where in a boat's movement it can load
one side of the eye disproportionately, and when the end's
side of the eye loose some tension, capsizing effects increase-- ,
and a loosely tied knot. Now, while the former factor seems
more happenstance and unavoidable/unplannable, the latter
is within control of the tyer --i.e., the knot
could be tied
with a snugger collar, but isn't. Is this loose collar deliberate,
in anticipation of the (partially) capsized form, with that form
somehow perceived as superior (perhaps because it james
a little, with a now quite tightly gripping collar?); or is it
just a consequence of tying without purpose/intent?
In this light, I should remark that I, as an armchair knots
fiddler, have discovered/invented knots that are and are
like the capsized anti-bowline, such that upon seeing them
in these mooring hawsers, I initially didn't think to question
them as having any other state, but presumed them to be
tied in a desired form; only recently did I effectively "un-
capsize" one to realize the equivalence!? As noted above,
there might be some reliable fellows out east whom I can
ask (and I've much I'd like to discuss w/them).
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Xarax, your just not "feeling" this smartly. The imperfect
"loop" --i.e., our minimal spiral-- wants to open at its crossing
point, pivoting on the opposite point to this (if cross is at
East, opp. is West); and to impede such opening, it is much
surer to have the part that such an opening must distort in
the process be less tensioned in resistance --ergo, it is the
tail and not the tail-side eye-leg. It can be furthered
in this process if the material is firm and there is some
slippage --so that the S.Part-side eye leg can move more
towards opening with the feed of a bit of tail, and likewise
the S.Part, all pivoting on the loaded led of the tail bight.
The photos are evidence of this effect, or of its prevention.
(But with the complex of factors, including the forces and
possible bias to eye legs, without deliberate testing, this
"evidence" stands as
consistent more than
compelling.)
In some of the 12(x twin =24?)-strand hollow braid CoEx ropes,
the rope flattens such that it makes a wider spread at the
crossing point, moving the center of forces in the loop's
crossing parts farther apart, without corresponding real
increase in rope diameter --and maybe this aggravates some
of the workings, though the compression of this rope might
lessen other aspects. It seems to readily go part way, quickly
losing the *Half-hitch*-like geometry; but maybe going further
is then something not so easy for this material!? [cf photo]
Now, wouldn't it be nice to have some informal survey of
the state of New Bedford's fleet of trawlers' dock lines
-- among others'!?
--dl*
====