What I see in the Gleipnir as its essential charasteristic is the transition from a half hich into the round turn, ...
I'm stuck on how/whether/what ... of this distinction between
half-hitch &
(round) turn-- as well on the whole mess of "(round) turn(s)": 180, 360, 540 degrees ... .
In e.g. what I call the "Reverse Groundline Hitch", which is common in commercial
fishing knotting for intermittently locking a spiral wrapping of things together (e.g.,
some clump of netting at its edge, two sides of netting, netting to a headline, or
two lines), there is the ditinct locking-down-upon-itself aspect, able to be seen in
a single structure, one end nipped and untensioned beyond, the other being loaded;
in this Rev.GlH use, both ends are in some stable low tension, leading fore/aft to
other such structures. Whereas in the Bowline, the arguably like structure is loaded
significantly coming & going, and not really so much nipping itself (in contrast to
the Sheet Bend, NB!).
and the partially "capsized" bowline is in fact the form that a bowline will inevitably take under strain. We are only so used to see it in the uncapsized form, that we regard this form as the "true" form of the bowline and its final form an anomality. But we see the bowline in real life so often having this "capsized" form, that the question has been raised whether it is done on purpose. The answer is simple; it's not done on purpose when making the knot. It is the inevitable result of using it.
Here I disagree -- at least at all points beyond "partially". You previously presented
an image/photo of what you labeled "capsized": that is markedly different from
my photos of (truly) capsized knots, where many folks won't be able to identify
the knot (and it can be confirmed by them as "new"!) -- where the HH=>turn=>
... spiral. And these I do NOT see as inevitable (testing of the knot will prove this),
but as results of having a relatively loose collar which enables that much distortion
of the knot's nipping loop. One could see a problem of *man* working with big,
stiff, rope, unable to adequately set the knot and then the huge loads for which
such rope is intended working this capsizing; but in the cases I've seen, although
rope & loads might be large, the material actually is rather pliant, not all so elastic,
and I believe
can be tied with a snugness denying the deformation seen.
(Look at many sailing/yachting images: there is often a HUGE amount of looseness
in the bowline's collar!) Why, I can tie shock cord --super deformably elastic stuff--
and see it behave. (And, as I've mused before, the end-on-outside bowline better
resists the capsizing; at one point I thought that if indeed the "Dutch navy" had
this form in favor, it might be why -- but I think all that Dutch business is myth.)
In Ashley's sketch of the half hitches in the standing part of #160, he has acknowledged the orientation of the half hitches. It is evident that he in part draws what he can see with his eyes. The actual setup is different from what we can expect of modern rope, which is probably not as stiff as those ropes that captain Mullins was using.
Indeed. And the load is relatively slight. One can think of various ways to have
met this
rope problem ; I immediately wonder "Why not just a bowline?"
-- or the toggled one you show, easily re-made w/new bight and toggle reinserted
for the move-release-backup-reattach sequence Ashley suggests.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Incidentally, I still find the Gleipnir to be way deficient in effecting lock: again,
that the bending of each loaded end's transmission of force to the nipping loop
must go around 4 edges (of squared bundles) renders getting a decent nip in
this way fruitless. Dang, I'm about to load some books-bound thus with dead
weights to show it! Recall that in my prior musing with this structure some
years ago, I didn't see adequate nip around smooth PVC pipe with flexible
soft (common) nylon solid braid cord (I saw it as a locking Clove hitch).
One way I'm seeking to redress this deliver-tension-to-TurNip problem is to
figure ways to set the wraps relatively snug AND THEN load ends to capsize
into the initially straight part the TurNip, which naturally tightens that part,
effects the lock, and can be further loaded a bit -- though of course there
is little hope in many cases of getting that load around the 4 corners to
the TurNip (conceivably, those edges might not want much pressure).
I see that this deliver-force... problem is aggravated by binding to a
convex surface, as the ends will press inwards on the TurNip and add
a point of frictive resistance for force to overcome in tightening it.The Gleipnir can be locked by Simple knot (as though closing a Reef knot),
or by making a Slip-knot in one end with the other nipped by it, snug to
the TurNip. In many cases, for any duration, I'd not trust the TurNip
to keep tension -- bit by bit, there can be some pressure on the ends
to come out; there is no turn in them to resist. -- varieties of circumstance.
--dl*
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