Author Topic: NOOB - I invented... now what?  (Read 71251 times)


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Re: NOOB - I invented... now what?
« Reply #105 on: January 27, 2011, 09:36:10 PM »
I only came across this the other day and already I'm using it in many varied applications. I think it's remarkable to devise such an innovative application. One of the reasons I first started searching for knotting instructions online was to find those that would work well with the large supply of scrap wire lengths our department generates. Aside from various communications cabling, any number of computer wires from mice, old USB cables, flat phone cord, etc are avialable to play with. I usually start by doubling it into a loop with a figure 8 knot and adding the extra turn (surgeon's knot?) when applicable. I started making these of lengths short and long to simplify tying down loads of expensive PC equipment on hand trucks with only a few bungee cords and/or carabiner clips, and when you have adequate slack, a simple half hitch ties it off. The short loops make hooking the axle or side rails with the bungee or clips so much easier. I made a pretty crude truck cargo netting out of line cable and hope to do even better on the next one (with a border made with thcker marterial).

I'll post my questions elsewhere in the appropriate topic, but I'm looking for ways to recycle a lot of other thicknesses of scrap wire. Most of my approaches are hybrids utilizing several types of hardware. I wanted to bind thicker and shorter round three-pronged power cables to make three foot segments that could work as a barrier rope connecting posts on a path. I thought maybe I could weave the strands like a bridge cable but think that is probably impracticle for its length and diameter. I still want to use several for a thicker grip (like a velvet rope) and figure termination could be into the end of a conduit coupler of the type that has the screw and plate to reduce the interior diameter and grip the material. I could also bind the length with much thinner wire for looks and support but would be making it up as I go along and would also be lost as to how to terminate the ends. I was never a Boy Scout and have no familiarity with most knots but I'm picking up the easy and useful ones (which is why I'm so impressed with the Gleipnir). It was mentioned the amount of material used but I can see a number of ways around that (I'll use it often for tree trimmings). I could use rope or wire to constrict the bundle, tie it off with cheap twine and a regular old knot (I found twine usually broke when trying to tighten it but worked great once the added tension was relaxed).

Hope to learn a lot here and welcome any suggestions or critiques. Will look for the right thread to expand further (Misc.?)


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Re: NOOB - I invented... now what?
« Reply #106 on: January 13, 2020, 04:40:43 AM »
Am I the only one to have reached the conclusion that member [Inkanyezi] gone in reality discovered or rediscovered the Gleipnir but wisely disclosed under a pseudonym given the usual outpouring of vitriol that awaited him? The board is the poorer without his participation.


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Re: NOOB - I invented... now what?
« Reply #107 on: January 14, 2020, 06:32:04 AM »
Hello swanoonie:
There is more than one casualty since this thread was born...
Notably, Xarax is MIA (or KIA depending on you point of view!) which is a significant loss, and so are his posts in this thread.
Some of the original photos of the 'Gleipner' are gone too - its not until well into this thread where you start to see some photos of a reasonable quality. Although - the resolution is still not exactly easy to unpick.

I also note this post which had a few barbs aimed in a certain direction...
At reply 91:

Its hard to know (with 100% certainty) who discovered what and at which date... new knot discoveries are always difficult to verify - one only has to look at the infamous #1425A Riggers bend which launched the IGKT and was later found to have been discoverer much earlier by Phil Smith.

I personally know that Xarax has done a great deal of work on hitches and its sub-class of 'binders' - and most of that work isn't seen on this forum.
All sorts of mathematical model models have been looked at and theories proposed - but I find most of them to be lacking in one form or another.


As a side note - not directly related to your post or this thread (but nevertheless interesting):
There was a paper published recently on knots which alluded to the number of topological 'crossings' being an important determinant of a knots security/stability.
And yet, this does not satisfactorily explain how the Zeppelin bend works.
[ ] The number of topological crossings in a Zeppelin bend is 10 (jam resistant in through loading)
[ ] The number of topological  crossings in a #1425A Riggers bend is 12 (jams)
[ ] The number of topological  crossings in a #1053 derived Butterfly bend is 12 (jam resistant in through loading)

Charles Hamel (aka Nautile) wrote an interesting paper about a comparison of 4 bends...but reached no decisive conclusion as to why #1425A jams and Zeppelin bend does not (and is just as secure and stable). Topology (in my view) does not provide all the answers. Geometry (and not topology) appears to provide a better path to understanding.
Link: (change to pdf).

And with the Gleipner binder hitch - I also think topology wont provide concrete answers either (as to exactly how it works). Perhaps a holistic view is key...?
I personally see all binders as using a progress capture mechanism - which allows them to progressively crush their (deformable) host object.
The Poldo tackle is another very interesting structure... Link:
Also discussed in 'Knotting Matters' #41 (at page 18).

And then there is little paper from Thomas Evans which compares 3 'tackles':
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 06:41:03 AM by agent_smith »


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Re: NOOB - I invented... now what?
« Reply #108 on: January 15, 2020, 12:31:15 PM »
WABACH machine
Perhaps admin can help with MIA photos at least:

Rope-n-Saw Life
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt.~

Scorpion Regent

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Re: NOOB - I invented... now what?
« Reply #109 on: January 15, 2020, 03:59:31 PM »
Hi, as a new member I feel lucky and impressed to witness the discovery (invention?) of a new knot.  Detractors will say that some one out there had all ready invented it and it was only self discovered.  If that is true who ever invented it earlier didn't document it and name it such that was recognised and became commonly used. 
I really like the physics of the Gleipnir: a marling twist cross tensioned to hold a bundle is a thing of beauty.  The symetry and simplicity are really appealing.   I do remember seeing the illustration in ABOK, years ago, of the sequence of marlings (a half hitch tied around a line under tension) used to hold a tow line around the axle of a vehicle, but I have never seen the element of cross tensioning till now.  I have always tied my Sheepshanks with Marlinespike hitches because I respect Murphy as a force of nature and I know that, sure as the sun rises in the east, tension is never constant when it is expected to be.  Cross tension, however, really is something that can be relied upon. 
As to the naming of this new knot my vote is cast for Gleipnir. 

Scorpion Regent

Ignorantia timoris, et estote filii fortitudinis discere.


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Re: NOOB - I invented... now what?
« Reply #110 on: January 17, 2020, 02:54:37 AM »
Thank you for the sincere reply and the fascinating links, agent_smith. I'll be fitting those into my reading.


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Re: NOOB - I invented... now what?
« Reply #111 on: October 20, 2020, 08:49:59 PM »
A few years ago I invented what I think may be a new knot.

I would however like to get "credit" as it were for it's
invention/development/discovery or whatever.
Assuming of course that it is original.
Here's a sort of *footnote* to this old thread,
worthwhile to remind us what can transpire,
and what can endure.

| The "Floating Constrictor Knot",
| although it could also be called "Concave Constrictor Knot".
| But if you want to throw "Dahm" in the front I won't complain.

I think that while arguably generous
at least more *accurate* will be giving
credit to a sub-class we can entitle
"Dahm's Floating Binders"
--underscoring the breadth/class,
not merely/only "constrictor" which we'll
see as more nearly a particular shaping
or a known-entity-like-gripper (but which
quite canNOT "float" and work!).

The footnote is to show that the idea trickled
up sometime/someplace else from Mr. Dahm,
but didn't have impetus there to be given
the promulgation which led to it claiming
a rightful place among knotted structures.
One might wonder about such things arising
w/o much notice, and what it takes to bring
notice/acceptance eventually.

 (E.g., though many do know of the constrictor,
how many did so from it's cryptic 1st appearance
in 1916 Ohrvall's Om Knutar (verbal),
or 1931 presentations in a Finnish book and
in Lester Griswold's Handicrafts --which
book Ashley cites & praises but makes no
peep about it revealing *his* constrictor
(some think that indeed it was from him
that James Drew contributed the knot to
this book --but (oddly?) then did NOT include
it a couple years later in his own, knots book!?).
I've not found the constrictor In The Wild.

--some old knots-notes papers out of my
clutter cache.  (... trying to organize ...)


ps :: OOOPS, I'll leave this placeholder,
as I've forgotten to move an image copy
to my flash drive ...  (and otherwise I think
that those just done I did in a size too large
for IGKT).
.:. so, to return to edit or add to this post.

DONE, though, ugh, sorry for the resolution:
fascinating to contemplate the system's
4-image-max and max 100kb each
but TOTAL max 1,024 --how to get past
4x100=400 to bust the Total !!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 11:59:16 PM by Dan_Lehman »