Author Topic: Knot to secure bear bag--a question  (Read 14799 times)

roo

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Re: Knot to secure bear bag--a question
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2009, 08:12:29 PM »
Here's another idea simliar to the zipper locked with a carabiner idea, but it maintains more of your current bag design:

Instead of cord to draw up the neck of the bag, use webbing with grommets installed (like a belt) at close intervals at key parts of the webbing.   So when you draw the neck tight, you can clip a carbiner through mating grommets to lock the bag shut.  Most of the webbing ends probably wouldn't need the grommets.

Hopefully bears can't figure out carabiners.

P.S.  Maybe if there isn't much variation in how the neck fabric gathers up, maybe you could get away with using just two grommets, unless you wanted another pair for the webbing ends for attaching the bag to an object with another carabiner.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 08:34:00 PM by roo »
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roo

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Re: Knot to secure bear bag--a question
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2009, 09:11:27 PM »
Here's another idea simliar to the zipper locked with a carabiner idea, but it maintains more of your current bag design:

Instead of cord to draw up the neck of the bag, use webbing with grommets installed (like a belt) at close intervals at key parts of the webbing.   So when you draw the neck tight, you can clip a carbiner through mating grommets to lock the bag shut.  Most of the webbing ends probably wouldn't need the grommets.

Hopefully bears can't figure out carabiners.

P.S.  Maybe if there isn't much variation in how the neck fabric gathers up, maybe you could get away with using just two grommets, unless you wanted another pair for the webbing ends for attaching the bag to an object with another carabiner.

P.P.S.  Building on the P.S., it should be possible to use cord in this manner.  You'd have a very short section of cord with two small end loops, just long enough for the tightened neck.  At the belly of each loop, you tie another cord, preventing the short cord from being lost when the neck is open.  The carabiner would be used in the same manner as with the webbing example, using the cord loops instead of grommets.

Alternatively, a short circle of cord (a sling) could be stubstituted for the short cord with two small end loops.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 09:15:59 PM by roo »
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tomcohen

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Re: Knot to secure bear bag--a question
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2009, 01:56:02 AM »
Thanks for all your suggestions.  I feel like I stumbled into a bull session of astro physicists.  One of my problems is being able to explain the solution to anybody in a simple manner.  So while some of your ideas might result in a better knot, I can't translate them into understandable directions.

To make our product a little more clear, it comes with a integral 6 foot cord.  By far the best way to deal with the problem I pose is to tie a square knot and then tie the loose ends around a tree branch with almost any kind of knot--although a figure 8 works well.  Then, the more the bear pulls on the bag, the tighter the square knot gets.  Unfortunately, in some places (Yosemite for example) the ranger forbid tying Ursack to a tree or anything else.  It is for those situations that I need the knot you are all trying to propose.  (The caribiner might work, but adds weight--our product is all about light weight).

So far I like the locked square knot concept best.  Is there a name for this knot.

Thank you all for your input.

tom

Sweeney

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Re: Knot to secure bear bag--a question
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2009, 08:37:12 AM »
So far I like the locked square knot concept best.  Is there a name for this knot.

Not that I am aware of - I wouldn't call this a knot but rather a "means to secure a bag" or the like as it is actually at least 2 recognised knots used in combination rather than a single knot.

Barry

roo

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Re: Knot to secure bear bag--a question
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2009, 05:22:38 PM »
(The caribiner might work, but adds weight--our product is all about light weight).

Aluminum clips are available.  They need not be huge.
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Knot to secure bear bag--a question
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2009, 09:32:41 PM »
To make our product a little more clear, it comes with a integral 6 foot cord.
By far the best way to deal with the problem I pose is to tie a square knot and
then tie the loose ends around a tree branch with almost any kind of knot--although
a figure 8 works well.  Then, the more the bear pulls on the bag, the tighter the
square knot gets.
How do you get to "by far the best way ..." ??  It doesn't even get "best", IMO,
and clearly not "by far".  Both solutions I presented should give better performance
in the situation of bear-grabs-tree-tied-bag (esp. as both of my solutions leave one
long remainder of the limited-lenth cord to use to tie to the tree--one need not
have two strands making the full reach (and so lessening it)), and in knot qua bend
circumstances where trees are scarce (even of the conveniently fallen awaiting use kind).
How hard is it for someone to understand how to tie a Rolling Hitch?
And how far afield should someone who cannot comprehend this be
going into back/bear country without better guidance?!

Quote
Unfortunately, in some places (Yosemite for example) the rangers forbid
tying Ursack to a tree or anything else.  It is for those situations that I need the knot
you are all trying to propose.  (The caribiner might work, but adds weight--our product
is all about light weight).
What do these rangers advise re food-protection?

>>> So far I like the locked square knot concept best.  Is there a name for this knot.

That name sounds good enough.  I haven't come across the knot,
other than in my own fiddling.

--dl*
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tomcohen

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Re: Knot to secure bear bag--a question
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2009, 10:05:37 PM »
The rangers advise a hard plastic canister weighing about 3 pounds.  Ursack without an aluminum liner weighs less than 8 ounces.  The liner adds about another 10.