Author Topic: Hitch for Angled Tree Limb  (Read 9550 times)

bmay3010

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Hitch for Angled Tree Limb
« on: February 14, 2009, 05:29:58 PM »
I want to tie a hitch to a tree limb. The limb rises out at
approximately a 45 degree angle. The hitch must hold well even if a
great deal of strain is put downwards on the standing part.

I have tried the "Round Turn and Two Half-Hitches" from "Handbook of Knots: Expanded Edition" by Des Pawson. The following
link,  http://www.flickr.com/photos/35236607@N03/ , shows pictures of
the result. The first two show the initial knot from far away, and
then up close. The following pair show the knot after pulling hard
downwards on the standing part. This pair also includes a far away,
and then up close shot. The pictures show the half-hitches sliding down the
limb, ending out of proper position.

Any way to stop this sliding problem? Or perhaps there is a better
knot for this situation?

If a different knot is better, do you know where I could find directions?

Thank you for your time!

-Brendan

roo

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Re: Hitch for Angled Tree Limb
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 05:52:01 PM »
Assuming you have close access to this limb via a ladder or climbing the tree, you could try something like this:

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/sailorhitches.html

Draw up tight, and allow for some possible extension as load is applied.  
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 04:48:27 PM by roo »
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SS369

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Re: Hitch for Angled Tree Limb
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 06:44:05 PM »
Will the load be on one or two of the ends?

SS

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Hitch for Angled Tree Limb
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 07:21:44 PM »
Quote
The hitch must hold well ... .

The obvious question is:  How what  well?  What's the use, here?

A usual situation is a swing--which implies a change in angle of the S.Part.
But the proximity of the trunk to rope suggests NOT such movement
(bumper swinging? ).

But a quick answer to your question is that the Clove hitch of your structure
(that is what those "Two Half Hitches" make) should be replaced with a
Rolling/Magnus Hitch--i.e., given an extra turn, preferably on the S.Part
side of the structure (downward side, in this case); this hitch component
of the noose-hitch  structure (my term for such things where the main
line is tied to , not so directly participating  in the knotting)
will be able to be set pretty snug to the limb, and shouldn't move much.

And you could achieve much the same effect by modifying the Timber Hitch
by making a similar wrapping of the struture's main line, to get this friction
grip
that keeps the knotting close to the limb.

And, for a third novel idea, using a short piece of, oh, 2"diameter dowel,
you could bring the line up under/against the limb,
arc it around (clockwise per your images) and tie to the limb with
a Clove Hitch--which binds the mainline to the limb;
then tuck the end through your arc'd loop, insert the dowel
there also, and draw down & tight the main line.  (The Clove h.l is
probably the tightest binding you can put on the line to bring it
snug against the limb; the dowel ensures that the load won't
flype the knot.  (A 4th idea, springing from criticism of this one
as possibly putting rope-on-rope chafing at the 1st contact,
is to engage the dowel immediately and somehow then seize
it to the limb, but that exercise is left to the reader (& the writer!) .)

--dl*
====
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 07:42:40 PM by Dan_Lehman »

TheTreeSpyder

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Re: Hitch for Angled Tree Limb
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 07:45:22 PM »
Problem: you need to grip tight to keep from sliding.

Problem: If you grip living limb tight, the limb will grow and be girdled by said rope. 

Possible Solutions: come from higher limb, choose postion dogged by limb, place nails in tree to stop slide (yetch)






DerekSmith

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Re: Hitch for Angled Tree Limb
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2009, 08:00:33 PM »
Try the KC Hitch here

http://igkt.pbwiki.com/KC-Hitch

After the initial expansion to set the grip, this will not grip on chrome, let alone on tree bark.

Derek

SS369

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Re: Hitch for Angled Tree Limb
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2009, 10:24:29 PM »
A prusik around the limb would be of some use and easy to do.
But what is the ultimate use for this rope on the tree?

SS

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Hitch for Angled Tree Limb
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2009, 12:43:21 AM »
Has anyone L :o K'd at the OP's photos?

Because he's using what I thought was 3/8" Sta-Set dbl.braid around a 1'-diameter
limb, until I did some on-monitor measuring and found the doubled rope to be about
1/7 the limb diameter; I'll revise my guessitmate to 5/8" & 9" resp., roughly.  And I'll
guess this attachment will be easy to adjust, vis-a-vis tree growth.  The claimed
"slipping down the limb" is a negligible roll of the line upon the not-so-secured
rope-to-rope hitch (1) staying tight & (2) a loaded side lying above a continuation
of the side--so it is pulled out over it and down a bit.

Try the KC Hitch here
After the initial expansion to set the grip, this will not grip on chrome, let alone on tree bark.

This laughable on three grounds:  the confusion of "grip" for "slip", 2nd occurrence;
the surmise that one can get much initial expansion on a large, rough object;
and the notion of investing several feet of rope to effect the rope-limb junction!
(Okay, a minimal  KC-ing should suffice; try working the rope joint into a Bowline,
then.)

There will be some inevitable drop of the apparent contact point of line w/tree,
as the line straightens to either side, but this can be anticipated in tying.  I just
tried a modified version of the Timber hitch, and the Clove-&-dowel (w/o dowel
but stuffing bights of the end) solutions on a vertical & smoother and thinner?
utility pole (no creosote) w/my  7/16" Sta-Set; seems to work.  (I like the look
of the Timber Hitch w/wraps.)

 :)

DerekSmith

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Re: Hitch for Angled Tree Limb
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2009, 09:44:53 AM »
Has anyone L :o K'd at the OP's photos?

Because he's using what I thought was 3/8" Sta-Set dbl.braid around a 1'-diameter
limb, until I did some on-monitor measuring


I guess most of us will have had a look at the photo's before responding.  That your first impression was 3/8 around a 1" limb explains a lot.

-------------------------------

Brendan,

You should not be worried that your knot moved under load.  Your hitch was not slipping, it was re-dressing itself under load.

All rope is to some degree elastic and most modern ropes (unless made specifically to be low modulus) are particularly stretchy.  This is generally a good thing for your knots, because if someone puts a jarring load onto the rope, by the time the force gets to the weak point - your knot - the jar will have been smoothed out quite a lot by the springiness of the rope.

You have actually nearly tied a one turn KC hitch.  As you loaded the rope, it extended and so allowed the opening turn to move down the bough in the direction of the force.  The friction between the rope and the bark is so great, that you don't need more than a single turn to hold in place.

If the point the rope leaves the bough is too near the trunk, then just slide the hitch up the bough a few inches and re dress it (but have your opening loop down the bough rather than on top of the gripping loop as in your photos)  the opening loop will move over the gripping loop when you load the hitch, so place it so that it can do this naturally without having to climb over the gripping loop first.

That's a nice piece of rope you have there.  Not that it matters, but what are you planning to fix to the other end?

Derek

TheTreeSpyder

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Re: Hitch for Angled Tree Limb
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2009, 02:18:56 PM »
Can you anchor to some area with imperfection or branching to dawg against pull direction,then trail down to half hitch at desired point?  It would still girdle though; and of course wider/flatter line with same tension would dig into host spar less...

bmay3010

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Re: Hitch for Angled Tree Limb
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 02:34:18 PM »
Wow, thank you to everybody for your responses. I didn't expect them so quickly, so I haven't replied until now.

I will take some time to sift through your suggestions and see what works.

Thanks again,

-Brendan

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Hitch for Angled Tree Limb
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2009, 07:27:46 AM »
I will take some time to sift through your suggestions and see what works.

It might.
But please tell us ASAP more of what you're aiming to do,
as we enquired, curious beings we are.  And that can refine
our suggestions.

 :)

 

anything