Author Topic: New Animated Knots Website  (Read 22037 times)

Mike

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2005, 08:11:31 AM »
I see now.  I tie it the same way I just set it a little different.  Wonder if it makes a difference?

KnotNow!

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Butterfly.
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2005, 09:43:19 AM »
Hi Mike, The picture is indeed different from how most of us make the butterfly.  But if you follow the animation the darned knot is the same and all the crossings come out fine.  An old knot by a different method.  Unlike the ABOK # 526 stopper at the animated site.   I've advanced the usual "butterfly" to a bend, following Brion Toss's Strait bend, which was tied the old fashoned way.  I've suggested a Straight Bend via the alpine butterfly method and published it a bit back in Knot News (PAB's news letter).  My Straight Bend is easy to tie by the way you learned to tie the "butterfly" and durnned near impossible by trying to modify this method.   Maybe if I work with it it will come out right.
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

knudeNoggin

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2005, 11:34:29 PM »
Quote
Is it just me or is that last picture of the alpine butterfly wrong?  The two turns in the middle should be crossing each other.

I'm unsure of what you mean by "two turns in the middle", but the middlemost
parts, which are SParts before they make an initial turn/curve, should always lie
parallel.  The collars of the resp. parts seem to be a single part and  so run
together, but that's an illusion.

Now, there is a tendency with the other commonly presented tying method--that of
making two half-twists and then bringing the bight tip around and through the center of
the first twisted rope--of generating torsion which will tend to make the legs of the eye
cross within the knot.  This crossing appears to give the SParts more gentle curves at
their initial bend, and so might produce a stronger knot.  But as the knot is asymmetric,
the testing of it needs to consider not only the initial orientation but also which end
is loaded as the SPart for making a loopknot.  There might also be some change
in performance depending on whether the knot is first loaded one way, then tested another
way--e.g., load it qua loopknot in one direction a few times, then test its strength
in bend-loading.

Btw, the images on this site are nicely clear and well-shot.  I'm glad that solid-color
ropes (vs. the patterned variety of kernmantle) were used, esp. w/bends.

*knudeNoggin*

Mike

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2005, 07:55:50 AM »
Hey pabres, could you post alink so I can see the Straight bend?

KnotNow!

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2005, 09:10:04 PM »
Hi Mike, Unfortunately I am still in the dark ages with image making devices (ain't got no digital camera).  What I can do with great ease is just mail the diagrams to you (or fax them if you have a fax).  So this is also true of everyone else... send me a mailing address via Email and I'll stick a hard copy into the snail mail box.  By the way, this is also ture of any other refferences I've made on other threads.  I really want a digital camera but then I expect to pay the phone bill and buy more beans so.... no digital for the forseeable future.
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

B. N.

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2005, 09:51:17 PM »
Quote
Hey pabres, could you post alink so I can see the Straight bend?


http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/butterflybend.html

PatDucey

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2005, 11:08:03 PM »
Alan,

Nice website!  One suggestion I have would be to add a page that has the eight "Boy Scout Knots".  These are the knots I had to learn in Boy Scouts.  You already have the animations of the knots, they are just not identified as a Boy Scout Knot.  It might mean even more hits on your site as Boy Scouts learn their craft.

The eight knots I remember (and it was a loooong time ago) are:
Bowline
Square knot
clove hitch
taught line hitch
truckers hitch
sheet bend
figure of 8 knot
sheep shank

Patrick

P.S. I think the truckers hitch is useless, and perhaps dangerous.  It should be deleted, and the constrictor knot added, but that is my opinion only, and I am not going to go up against BSA.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2005, 08:43:34 AM »
Quote
taught line hitch

It's not about learning but tension:  'taut-line'.

Quote
I think the trucker's hitch is useless, if not dangerous ...

??? Huh?!
Did you mean instead "Sheepshank"?
The Trucker's Hitch (a name denoting a variety of constructions)
is quite useful for tensioning a line, and is commonly employed.
(And if you indeed meant what you wrote, what danger do you see for the Trucker's H.,
and what use for the Sheepshank?!   Perhaps it's a matter of WHICH Trucker's
Hitch is used.)

--dl*
====

PatDucey

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2005, 04:23:17 AM »
You are correct, it is Taut, and not Taught.  No excuse, I was typing fast and did not check my work before posting.

Also, my mistake (as I said, Boy Scouts was a loooong time ago), it was the Timber Hitch I learned in Boy Scouts, not the Truckers Hitch.  The Truckers Hitch, as shown on the website, is a substantial knot, and probably too complex to teach 10 yr olds.  

This is what I learned those many years ago:

http://www.korpegard.nu/knot/index.php?knot=17&hideComments=&showInt=


I realize it has it's place, but I have never used the Timber Hitch in securing anything.  I use the constrictor much more, and I think that it should be taught to Boys Scouts in place of the Timber Hitch.

KnotNow!

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2005, 06:02:00 AM »
Hi Patrick,  Well it is a matter of location and need, I guess.  What I do is take the saw and knock down a tree.  Then I tie the timber hitch to the tree and drag it out where I can do something usefull with it. Then again I might mill the tree into boards and use the timber hitch to drag the boards out.  Or I might reach up as high as I can and put a timber hitch around a tree and hang a hook and run a free line from hook to hook to hook to hook. Then I can lift one end of a tree or a board with a running block on the free line for a "poor mans highline".  At each hook I slack away and transfer the block to the "home" side of the hook, then I tension my "high line" and haul toward home.  Point being that all the scout knots are alive and well in my home.  I also use the truckers hitch, in several variations to secure loads, snub lashings, rig tarps and other places where I need more tension in the mainline than I can pull without help.  
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

KnotNow!

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2005, 06:13:51 AM »
Hi, I think the site was about to cut me off.  I think I covered my comments on the timber hitch and the truckers hitch ( which are if not daily knots at least weekly knots), but yes; they need the constrictor.  When I worked with the scouts ("loooooong ago") I found them eager and willing students and since I already had an ABOK they had many knots at hand.  I think the advantage of living in the woods is that knots are a part of everyday life.  It is (as near as I can tell) mid june and we are still burning a wood fire in the bedroom.  Not enough for a major gathering effort but enough to harvest a windfall tree each week, good duty for the timber hitch and a good loop or stopper (I like a loop over the shoulder but a tail with a stopper is good too).  M't'men still use knots every day.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2005, 06:17:13 AM by PABPRES »
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

knudeNoggin

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2005, 09:40:20 AM »
Quote
I used the Constrictor much more // but yes; they need the constrictor

I'm curious, where do you guys use the Constrictor so much?
And is it just that, or maybe the Dble--either #1252 or -53?!

*knudeNoggin*

Willeke

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2005, 08:26:26 PM »
As a scout leader, I have taught the timberhitch to the boys and girls as a way to start a lashing, when the clove hitch was not covenient. And it is a nice simple knot, easily remembered and tied proper.

For the constrictor, for me that is a weekly knot. I use it often in decorative work, often to be cut off when finishing. I use it for temporary lashings, temporary whippings at the ends, and many more, often temporary jobs. If I had to make a list with no more than 6 knots, it would have to be one of them, (for my kind of knot tying.)

It does also work as permanent closing for plastic bags,  knot to tie thin stuf round any post or rope, quick whipping on a fresh made rope, and so on.
A good knot to teach, if not cubs, at least scouts.

Willeke.

PS, the version I use is #1189 or 1249, or a slipped version like 1250 for work where I will not be able to take it away in a normal fasion.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2005, 08:31:51 PM by Willeke »
"Never underestimate what a simple person can do with clever tools,
nor what a clever person can do with simple tools." - Ian Fieggen

Writer of A booklet on lanyards, available from IGKT supplies.

PatDucey

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2005, 11:18:20 PM »
KnudeNoggin,

Like Willeke, I use the Constrictor mostly as a temporary knot.  A temporary whipping, a binding knot on coils of small stuff, any time I want to gather something together quickly with a knot that will hold tightly.  

I once used it on vacation to tie off the ends of a Turks Head Bracelet where I didn't have the material at hand to finish it properly.  After I tied the knot, I cut off the ends quite close to it.  A surgeon, who was also on the boat (and whos' daughter was now sporting a new bracelet) asked me about a knot that I had tied so quickly, and had so much confidence in.  We had a discussion about knots, and I ended up teaching him how to tie it.  I don't know if he ever used it in surgery, but it would be a good knot to use on a severed artery, or even in a dire emergency it could be used as a tourniquet.

Roy,

Yes, I know the Timber Hitch is still used in logging and probably other trades.  However, for the everyday knots taught in a basic course of knotting, the Constrictor has more applications than the Timber Hitch.  I will continue this discussion with you in Seattle at the AGM, and during the boat show.

Pat
« Last Edit: June 17, 2005, 11:20:34 PM by Pat_Ducey »

Alan Grogono

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Re: New Animated Knots Website
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2005, 01:39:46 AM »
Quote
Alan,

Nice website!  One suggestion I have would be to add a page that has the eight "Boy Scout Knots".  These are the knots I had to learn in Boy Scouts.  You already have the animations of the knots, they are just not identified as a Boy Scout Knot.  It might mean even more hits on your site as Boy Scouts learn their craft.

The eight knots I remember (and it was a loooong time ago) are:
Bowline
Square knot
clove hitch
taught line hitch
truckers hitch
sheet bend
figure of 8 knot
sheep shank

Patrick


I agree with most but certainly not the Sheepshank.  In 60 years of interest, I have never met anyone who could suggest a use for it except, of course, a Boy Scout.  It slips, it capsizes, it cannot be tied under load, etc.  Would the process of instructing a boy scout to believe that a Sheepshank has a use be associated with an unfortunate gullibleness later in life?



Quote


P.S. I think the truckers hitch is useless.


Really!  I installed it because of the sheer number of requests I received for it!

Quote


.... the constrictor knot be added


About that we are in complete agreeement - an essential knot.