Image Archive Filling Up

[admin]

Good morning, people.

One of the forum users contacted me today as he'd had problems trying to upload an image on one of his posts. Turned out that the 10 megabyte space that I'd allocated for uploaded post images was completely full! I've rectified the problem for the time being by doubling the available archive space to 20 megabytes but, obviously, that is just delaying the inevitable. At some point, that, too, will be full.

So, I'd like to ask people's opinion as to how to proceed longer term. Given that I cannot extend the image archive space ad finitum, how long should images be retained in old posts?

[DerekSmith]

Now that folks are getting the hang of posting images and are only just starting to appreciate the value of posting images, the rate of filling up space must be expected to increase quite rapidly as folks continue to utilise this valuable tool.

If we assume that the 10meg was effectively filled during the last year, then it would be reasonable to also assume that the rate of image posting will further increase to something in the area of say 20 to 50 megs per year.  If our membership can be encouraged to continue creating this valuable image resource, then we will be lucky if they contribute this volume of files.

Lets work on the (almost) silly level of say 50 megs per year.  That would be one terabyte of files in 20 years.

Given that you can buy a 1.5 terabyte hard drive today for about ?120 (that would be enough space for 30 years storage at the project rate of 50 megs per year), then instead of even starting to consider deleting our history, could we not ask the Guild to shell out ?120 (or even ?240 so we have a good backup) and give us the facility to create a really excellent Knotting image library spanning a serious period of time?

I would hate to think that we would consider destroying knotter contributions.  It would be a bit like suggesting that we burn our old Knotting Matters in order to make room on the shelf for the new copies.  Especially when the technology and cost is available to us.

Derek

[SS369]

When do we burn the books in the library?
What's the set up here, a remote server that can't do any better than a weak e-mail account in the storage department?
I am not sure how the head folks think, but IMHO, it would be a travesty to delete any jewel. At least back it up to permanent storage media please in the meantime.
Maybe with more tech-data we can come up with a collective fix(es).
2cents.
SS

[skyout]

As a new member I spent quite a bit of time looking over old threads and the one thing I noticed was so many missing pictures already. It's kind of like going to the cookie jar, opening the lid and not finding any cookies.
I do hope we don't loose any more.

[DerekSmith]

Good point Skyout,

Today, the upload image facility of this forum allows a member to add images at the end of a post.  But if you want to use images within a post to demonstrate some point, then you first have to upload the images to some place on the internet and link the image into the post.  This means that if a member looses their web space used to host the images, then the link dies and the images are lost, sometimes even making the post incomprehensible.

Not only should the Guild be considering making its image holding facility much much greater, but perhaps they should be considering making some web storage available to members as part of their membership.  This way, all the knotty images would be safeguarded for the future, even should the inevitable happen and a member ceases to be able to maintain their web presence (i.e. they shuffle off to an even knottier place).

Storage space is now so low cost, the Guild could seriously consider creating a facility that could become the worlds greatest reserve of knotting imagery.  Now that would be something to leave to future knotters.

Today, I use a number of free wiki sites to store all my knotting images (ca 200MB capacity).  How much better (and safer) if all those images were to be held on a Guild server.  This could be done relatively easily by running wiki software on a Guild server and allocating anyone with a Guild membership a user access to upload their files.

Pictures and videos are here to stay (you only have to look at the popularity of Youtube and Facebook to realise this)  We need to keep our Guild up with this trend in order to ensure that we do not loose the next generation of knotty posters by only supporting a web presence stuck in the age of Forums.  I know it was a big move for the Guild to move to have a website, then to having a Forum, but the pace of progress on the internet is fast and to stay in touch we need to move our web presence forward to meet the popular technologies.

Derek

[Phil_The_Rope]

Couldn't agree more, Derek!

Anyone new to knotting should be looking at the IGKT site and forum to find information and inspiration. To lose images, no matter how old, would be terrible. The Guild should be recognised as the ultimate authority on knotting (if I may be so bold), so I think we desperately need to find a way to keep ALL posted images.

I'm running a workshop on "Decorative Knotting" on Thursday evening (23rd October) for the local scouts. In the short time available I can only give them a taste of the simple stuff, but show some of the more adventurous things they might aspire to. On the "Facts Sheet" I'll be handing out, I emphasise that the IGKT site and forum is where they need to go to get help and find out more about knotting. I think it would be tragic if an enthusiastic youngster visited the forum only to find referenced images not there!

I can't believe the cost would be prohibitive.

Phil
http://www.gr8-knots.com
http://www.knotsdvd.com

[Knot Head]

Image Shack is a good place for those who wish to post an image to their forum post. I believe it is free. The thing about that part is that image shack will automatically provide you with link for you to include in your post which will then pipe in the image from image shack to their forum post. In short, it is called hot linking your image. I used to use image shack a long time ago. Works fairly well too.

Now for uploading your image for the forum post. That is a subject that all Forum owners have to face, is how much space. I face it every day. So to solve the situation I had to set the forum to archive mode to every 90 days. This will create a complete archive with images that are uploaded as well. Now, if I know SMF forums they should have something simular and also have away to pull the archive back out of moth balls upon request. This should save you quite a bit of space and help you to keep the forums clean and sharp looking. But forgive me if I have stepped out to far. Just relaying some of my own experience with my forums.

Best regards,
Brian...
 

[skyout]

Good morning, people.

One of the forum users ...

As I was the one that sent you that PM, not to get touchy here, but calling me a "user" just sounds bad to me. I may not be a member of the IGKT right now for personal reasons, but I still consider myself a member of the International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum. This forum I feel is great and has helped me in numerous ways and I have returned the favor with contributing posts hopefully that have helped others as well. Possibly you can find another term than "users" to describe myself and others. JMO

The Great Magnificent Contributor would work for me. Just kidding but user sounds like someone that only takes without giving in return or something. Thanks.

[skyout]

Image Shack is a good place for those who wish to post an image to their forum post. I believe it is free. ...
Best regards,
Brian...
 

Yep, totally free with unlimited space. What I like about it is you can upload 20 pics at a time if you resize them to small (640X480) pics.
skyout
The Great Magnificent Contributor
 

[DerekSmith]

Skyout  --  You are indeed a USER.

Your 88 posts amount to roughly 1% of the posts to this forum, so we can assume that you are responsible for using about 1% of the valuable storage resource of 10MB that the Guild is providing and (presumably) paying for.

At today's rate of storage (i.e. ca ?100 per Terabyte), you are single handedly responsible for using up about 1p worth of our valuable resource - yet you have not contributed a single penny towards its provision  --  SHAME ON YOU.

Come on now, play the game, step up to the line and pay your subscription and become a fully paid up member of the  IGKT.  I was once the same as you and unashamedly used the Forum without being an IGKT member, but since paying my dues I feel so much better - I am now a REAL IGKT type person and can hold my head up high in the knowledge that I am no longer one of those outsider sort of USERs.  Now I am a respectable user, and a contributor even.

Then of course, when you have paid up and your conscience is clear, you will even have the opportunity (well at least the right) to tell the council members what you would like the IGKT to provide for you (sadly, they won't listen, but at least you will have the right).

So, come on in - the water is fine and I promise not to rib you too much over the new 'handle' - TGMC (The Great Magnificent Contributor).

Derek

[skyout]

Hey Derek,
I would hope I used more than the 1% as I am a visual kind of person with the itch to share pictures, and not those tiny little ones like we use on KHWW (jk Brian, I love KHWW), I go for the bigger medium ones here. LOL

I also like instant gratification so I don't like clicking around to see what it is I came to see when I came to see it and it not be there. jk Even with some of the old pics gone to cyberspace this is still a great site.  So you guys with the clout, shout it out that we need more rams or bites or what ever to not loose any more pics. Just the opinion of a humble wanna be member maybe in the future.

And before you go pointing fingers at handles (just kidding), you need to check out your Anoraks of Hairy String (nice work btw). You're, how's this for a handle, the dead link poster (at the Toki page) that also has posted links jumping to the wrong page.(not kidding, when I clicked on IGKT it asked if I wanted to buy a chainsaw or something.) LOL

[KnotMe]

Don't start using an external image storage service.  Even if they are the nicest people with the best policies, you never know if they'll go under or get bought out or ...

If the guild spends even 2 adult membership dues a year on disk space, they'll have effectively infinite space.

If the service hosting the guild's site is being stingy... a change may be in order.

[DerekSmith]

Hi Skyout,

Thanks for noticing those dead links.  They are just one perfect example of why we should promote the IGKT to provide the biggest knotting image repository on the internet.  If I had mirrored those images onto a Guild resource, they would still be available for us to reference now.  The internet needs resources which outlive the individual and can keep information live even though the individuals come and go.

And as you can see from Carol's post, if you join up we will be half way there to being able to afford "effectively infinite space"

As for the 'Chain Saw' incident.  KC kindly produced that front page Flash animation and apparently left that link in (a test) by accident.  I thought he had corrected it but when he lost a mass of his Flash work, I guess the files for that page were lost and he has not returned to recreate the whole animation.  I do not know how to program in Flash so there is nothing I can do about the link other than wait for KC or some other Flash programmer to edit the mistook.

Anyway, back to the issue in hand - if you sign up, we should have enough money to have half an infinite space, which should keep us going for a while until we can find another new member.

PS  those amongst us who believe in infinite resources might like to take a look at this little series of lecture videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY&feature=related

Derek

[skyout]

if you join up

Like I said earlier, right now I have personal reasons.... but thanks for the 5 or 6 suggestions to join and now that I am going to be personally responsible for loosing all our photos if I don't join. 
If the Guild is running low on funds to maintain an effective server, here's a suggestion. One thing I noticed when becoming involved here is the lack of the Guilds involvement with supplies. Why not have a "Marketplace" link at the top of the page where members can buy fids, neddlles, line, etc. This way members, especially new members, know they are getting a product chosen by the experts and the Guild gets a little, too. I know of car forums that do this and both the members and the forum benefit. I know the Guild is non-profit, but if the proceeds go back into the costs of operation, ... Just a thought. And this way they won't have to rely on me joining to save the whales, I mean the pictures.

[Andre van der Salm]

I wonder if this allowed since the Guild is a charity Organisation.

kind regards
Andr? van der Salm