Author Topic: Top ten most useful knots.  (Read 113445 times)

Andy

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2010, 09:51:53 PM »
p.s.: your explanations are quite clear and I will try them on the road! For the plain bowline, cannot download the video until I get back, but so far I have only managed to get a "fake" bowline with the working end going toward the loop (correct) but outside that loop (incorrect). Cheers, Andy
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Andy

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2010, 01:29:48 AM »
Hi Transminator,

Greetings from my tent in Crowdy Bay  National Park... I can see a few kangaroos grazing a few meters away... Strange what mobile internet can do for you!

Writing to say THANK YOU for introducing me to this fast method to tie a bowline. It works beautifully. At first I had been trying at the right end of the rope, and, because of the ''natural" orientation of the rope when I tie a slip knot, it did not produce the right shape. When I use the left side of the rope, it is perfect.

For the double knotted bowline, here too, it works fantastic. Not sure if I fully understand the instructions: Are you making the second loop further on the line? If you make the second loop straight on top of the first (in one motion), then the slip knot through the two loops, it is amazingly fast. Perhaps this is what you meant. In any case, hugely grateful to have been introduced these techniques.

Wishing you a beautiful day in Dublin,

Smiles,

Andy
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Transminator

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #77 on: May 17, 2010, 03:49:52 PM »
Greetings from my tent in Crowdy Bay  National Park... I can see a few kangaroos grazing a few meters away...!

Hi Andy
Sounds like your having a great time.

Writing to say THANK YOU for introducing me to this fast method to tie a bowline. 

No worries, mate  ;)

It works beautifully. At first I had been trying at the right end of the rope, and, because of the ''natural" orientation of the rope when I tie a slip knot, it did not produce the right shape. When I use the left side of the rope, it is perfect. For the double knotted bowline, here too, it works fantastic.
Not sure if I fully understand the instructions: Are you making the second loop further on the line?

exactly. then you have two choices. you put the first loop on top of the second one or vice versa and then you tie the slip knot through both loops. One will be a water bowline, the other results in a double knotted bowline. (btw. in one case the two loops form a clove hitch, in the other they don't)
But never mind the instructions. It sounds like you got it.

I am hoping to find an easier (revolutionary  ;D ) tying method for one of my favorites the Rosendahl (Zeppelin) Loop, but I am now getting more and more into decorative knotting, especially key fobs and lanyards using turks heads, pineapple knots, matthew walkers and what (k)not. But I am just at the start of the journey progressing from the basics.

Sunny greetings

knot4u

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #78 on: May 28, 2010, 07:02:58 PM »
EDIT: I reduced my list down to 10 to play by the rules.

My favorite knots are also in this thread: http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1835.0

Here's my list of best knots for the "average" person, NOT in order of importance:

Binding:
1. Square (everybody should know how to tie this knot correctly)

Loop on End:
2. Zeppelin Loop (strong, secure, has never jammed on me)
3. Bowline/Double Bowline (learn all the different ways to tie and you can rest assured that you'll have a decent fixed loop for anything)

Loop on Bight:
4. Butterfly Loop (1, 2 and 3 loops - simple, secure, doesn't jam easily)

Hitch:
5. Buntline Slipped (it just works)
6. Adjustable Grip+ (an enhanced version that I discuss in another thread)
7. Half Hitch Slipped (simple, quick, temporary, secure enough for many purposes, perhaps my most used knot)
--"Trucker's" Hitch (a combination of three knots, for example, Buntline Slipped, Stevedore Slip Loop and Half Hitch Slipped)

Bend:
8. Zeppelin Bend (strong, surprisingly secure, has not jammed on me)
9. Butterfly Bend (simple, secure, has not jammed on me, my regular knot for neck lanyards)
--Zeppelin Loops connected (not a bend, but connects ropes of ANY size difference)

Stopper:
10. Stevedore (simple enough, non-jamming)

=====

I just realized that knowing how to use these knots is more important than the knots themselves.  For example, knowing how to tie a good Trucker's Hitch is more important than the actual knots used within the Trucker's Hitch.

I like using knots that won't jam too easily and are relatively strong and secure.  I generally assume that people are using rope that they would like to reuse.  I don't want to frustrate a new guy by forcing the person to cut rope.  Plus, I'm sure most people already know how to tie knots that jam up and that force you to cut the rope.  If someone is asking for knot advice, then I'll give them my best stuff, and they can take it or leave it.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 07:48:07 AM by knot4u »

jcsampson

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #79 on: May 28, 2010, 11:29:30 PM »
Here is my list of nine basic favorites:

- Overhand Knot (used mainly to tie bread and produce bags closed--a very important activity)
- Reef-Knot Bow (used only to tie shoes and sweat pants)
- Figure-Eight Stopper
- Bowstring Loop (a.k.a. Honda Knot)
- The Fixed-Gripper Knot ([formerly called the Derived Hitch] using multiple constructs)
- Cow Hitch (using three varieties, but only in the contexts of loops and circular lines)
- Bowline (using three varieties)
- Butterfly Loop
- Double Harness Bend with Parallel Ends (ABOK #1421)

However, I will also allow any knot that is a subset or minor variation of a knot in this personal library, or a construct that utilizes these knots, such as Two Half Hitches, Round Turn and Two Half Hitches, Trucker's Hitch, Figure-Eight Loop, Double Figure-Eight Loop, Double Butterfly Loop, Chain Sinnet, etc.

See

http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1839.msg12439#msg12439

for an explanation of the Fixed-Gripper Knot.

Discussion of the Double Harness Bend with Parallel Ends (ABOK #1421)

This bend is strong, secure, efficient (i.e., uses little cord), symmetrical, easy to untie (though, apparently, Ashley was unaware of how to untie it easily), has tails coming out of the same side, can be made stopper-flush, is quick and easy to make, and is attractive and conveniently sized. In the tests I've conducted, using waxed dental floss, it did not slip after repeating more than 100 hard tugs, while four of the popular bends did. It is untied easily by placing a thumb (or a thumbnail, if the cord is thin) in the middle of the knot's SIDE and using the thumb as a pivot over which the knot can be bent. Bending the knot in this way quickly and easily loosens it for untying. If the tails of #1421 are reverse twisted, the knot's top will take on a slightly different appearance, and the knot will be as secure as the popular bends tested; make the knot as in the diagram, however, and the knot will be MORE secure than the popular bends tested (which were Hunter's Bend, Butterfly Bend, Ashley Bend, and Zeppelin Bend).

When making this bend, I think, "With the right line running above the left line; right goes over, under, under, and in between; left goes over, under, under, and in between." When the knot has been made and tightened correctly, the top of it shows a type of letter-Z shape.

JCS
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 12:23:08 AM by jcsampson »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #80 on: May 29, 2010, 04:31:44 AM »
- Overhand Knot (used mainly to tie bread and produce bags closed--a very important activity)

I was just about to post this point -- in questioning how some of these
"most useful" knots ever actually are used.  Mundane things such as
tying ones shoes or this bag-closing operation tend to be "most..."
in frequency but find no respect in the lists of "useful" knots.
(Interesting question is how to classify this bag-closing knot:
gripping the bag in hand makes it a stopper, but when the
bag's lying with e.g. apples wanting to roll in many directions,
it's more of a joining knot --but joining what, not "ends"?!)

> - Bowstring Loop (a.k.a. Honda Knot)

NB, a bowlinesque "around the tree and back into the hole"
finish makes for a nice knot.

(-;

Transminator

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #81 on: May 31, 2010, 10:15:33 AM »
Siberian, aka, Evenk (this sucker is just fun to tie, easy to untie and just works)

Why the heck have I not come across the Evenk before?
Played around with it at the weekend> love it!
This goes on my list and may well be replacing the slipped buntline for me as it is tied in a jiffy and seems to be secure.
(after my first, tentative evaluation with different types of rope)

Adjustable Grip (better than tautline)

I agree. And I found it is good in combination with the Siberian for putting up a tarp or hammock.

Zeppelin (strong, secure, has never jammed on me)
Bowline/Double Bowline (learn all the different ways to tie and you can rest assured that you'll have a decent fixed loop for anything)

Two of my favs too. I use the Zeppelin (Loop and Bend) most of the time and revert to the  bowline(s) if it needs to go fast. I did not put it in my list, because I thought it is, compared to the bowline, a bit tricky to tie and remember for a person who does not play around with rope as much. But I am starting to think that it might be worth the effort even for a beginner. Once you tied it a few times, it sticks and it has the merrits of security (without any extra tucks etc.) and easy adjustability. And it does not jam.

Anyway.
I learned the Siberian/Evenk knot.
Thanks for sharing the list

Transminator

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #82 on: June 22, 2010, 09:59:17 AM »
Regarding the Zeppelin Loop and tying methods there is a new thread
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1872.0
which presents options for tying it, which might help to get the Zeppelin Loop into the top ten list of knots.

Have a look at my video on youtube. I personally find this way of tying it very easy and memorable:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9HRegcP9NU

Regarding the quick/rapid way of tying the water bowline and double (knotted) bowline,
I posted these you tube videos to demonstrate:

water bowline: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTyJgvmuwSo
double bowline: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QTkVWLX4sE

And finally the butterfly loop and bend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwBNtlHFNKw

Andy

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #83 on: June 22, 2010, 10:11:15 AM »
@Transminator,

Cool, I'll check your videos!

A couple days ago I added a rapid bowline pictorial to my page of ways of tying a bowline.

Love it!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 10:16:56 AM by Andy »
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knot4u

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #84 on: June 24, 2010, 06:03:27 AM »
VI. Clove Hitch (which is getting #4 to gang up in a particular way; do we count "Two HH.s" as a Clove Noose?!)

I don't find the clove hitch to be all that useful compared to other similar hitches.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 06:04:37 AM by knot4u »

Transminator

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #85 on: June 24, 2010, 09:09:16 AM »
I don't find the clove hitch to be all that useful compared to other similar hitches.

It is useful as the basis for other knots that evolve out of the clove or use it as part of themselves
Examples:
1. The constrictor knot is just a clove hitch with an extra tuck (followed by the double constrictor, the boa knot etc.)
2. The Buntline Hitch is a clove hitch around the standing part
3. The locking turns in the water bowline are a clove hitch.
etc.

Its a bit like saying: the overhand knot is not all that useful.
For most cases it isn't, but so many knots can be tied or are tied starting with an overhand knot
(the zeppelin loop e.g.)

Those simple knots (overhand knot, clove hitch etc.) are the 101 of knotting and therefore have their place
One starts from the simple forms and progresses to the more complex. 

roo

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #86 on: June 24, 2010, 03:18:28 PM »
I posted these you tube videos to demonstrate:

water bowline: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTyJgvmuwSo
One of the problems with starting with a clove hitch, is that it's very easy to get the wrong version of the water bowline.

I might watch the other videos later.  So sloooow.
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roo

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #87 on: June 24, 2010, 04:41:51 PM »

And finally the butterfly loop and bend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwBNtlHFNKw

I prefer the twist method to the so-called hybrid method for the loop.  The hybrid method is not very memorable, and if you reach around the wrong rope (an easy error) you get a knot that looks like butterfly loop but is very much inferior to a butterfly loop :o.  This would be a less serious issue if the mistake weren't so similar in appearance to the butterfly loop, so it could be corrected before being accidentally used.

As far as the bend, I've always found the structure elementary enough not to need a developed method.  It could be just me.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 04:44:54 PM by roo »
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knot4u

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #88 on: June 24, 2010, 05:15:20 PM »
I don't find the clove hitch to be all that useful compared to other similar hitches.

It is useful as the basis for other knots that evolve out of the clove or use it as part of themselves
Examples:
1. The constrictor knot is just a clove hitch with an extra tuck (followed by the double constrictor, the boa knot etc.)
2. The Buntline Hitch is a clove hitch around the standing part
3. The locking turns in the water bowline are a clove hitch.
etc.

Its a bit like saying: the overhand knot is not all that useful.
For most cases it isn't, but so many knots can be tied or are tied starting with an overhand knot
(the zeppelin loop e.g.)

Those simple knots (overhand knot, clove hitch etc.) are the 101 of knotting and therefore have their place
One starts from the simple forms and progresses to the more complex.  

I agree with you there.  However, that concept is too abstract for a beginner who just wants your top ten best knots to go do stuff right now.  This is the "Practical Knots" forum, not the "Theory of Knots" forum.  In theory, you could put Overhand in your top ten, when you're really thinking Zeppelin Bend, right?

How does the average dude get to the Zeppelin Bend if you give him an overhand only?  He doesn't.

How does the average dude get to the Slipped Buntline if you give him a Clove Hitch only?  He doesn't.

jcsampson

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #89 on: June 24, 2010, 11:53:55 PM »
This post is an extension to one of Transminator's that gives examples of knots that contain the Clove Hitch.

Examples (continued):

4. The Fixed-Gripper Knot of the newly bestowed Fixed-Gripper Constructs

JCS