Author Topic: Top ten most useful knots.  (Read 127161 times)

[Inkanyezi] gone

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2009, 03:35:42 PM »
I was too lazy to reply to that list. Any list made by one person will be different from the list made by another, but I find the five point list a bit strange to say the least.

  • 1. First, I would not place any bend on top of the most useful knots, the first one probably a hitch or an eyeknot. In my practical knotting, hitches are the ones I do most, and my most used knot is the bowline (as a hitch evidently).
  • 2. Then for tying up the boat, I use a variety of hitches to cleats and bollards, which include round turns, fig8 turns, half hitches, backhand turns and other easily adjustable and easily untied contraptions. This family of belaying methods is used for sheets and halyards too.
  • 3. 4. In tying up, I also use a Butterfly tied mid-line, to which I attach a spring via a Double Becket  hitch. It's the nearest thing to a bend among my first knots.
  • 5. Then it is the Anchor Bend #1843, which I cannot live without, but I don't tie it as frequently as it is used. Technically it is not a bend but a hitch. I use it for the anchor as well as for attaching snaphooks to halyards. This knot is mostly used as a semi-permanent solution.
  • 6. Sometimes I need a Magnus Hitch, for releasing tension on a line, that's yet another hitch.
  • 7. 8. I use the clove hitch to hang coils of rope, and they are secured with something like what Ashley calls Fireman's Coil #3094, which has been secured with a HH on the bight on top, which effectively will form the TurNip when I hang it by the end of the rope. Sometimes I hang it on a hook with that bight, but I always secure with a HH.
  • 9. Then for binding down objects I often use a Trucker's Hitch, mostly tied with a slipknot for purchase and finished with a HH.
  • 10. Recently I have often used the Gleipnir for attaching stuff to my bicycle rack, where it has replaced the Trucker's. I use two different forms, mostly two splayed loops, but also the original form with two round turns.
I haven't put a bend on the list yet, but there are a few bends I do use sometimes.
  • 11. I make small slings for prusiking and other usage, tying them with double fisherman's (grapevine) bend. These knots are used permanently.
  • 12. For joining the ends of two ropes, my most used knot is the Carrick Bend.
  • 13. I sometimes use a sheet bend (single or double); sometimes the becket hitch to an eye (spliced or bowline or butterfly).

So the first bend isn't even among my ten most used ones. But of course I tie my shoelaces as most people do, with a slipped square knot.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 03:47:25 PM by Inkanyezi »
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2009, 10:47:03 PM »
Harkening to Knots in the Wild thread, one could address
"Ten Most Used Knots[/i]" and see what that turned up.

I don't agree so much with Inkanyezi's lament at diversity (each will have
different Top Tens):  I think that a survey conducted of actual rope
users --as contrast with (arm chair) "knot tyers"-- will show clumpings
of knots befitting those users' applications.  For one thing, not all so
many rope users even know (much) more than ten knots (!);
sometimes, what they use that might be seen as different knotted
structures can be seen as combinations of just a few fundamental items.
E.g., the Clove Hitch, and in more fundamental structural terms, Half-hitch
sequences, is much used in the commercial fishing knotting that I've seen
-- both with my own presence and via others' images (notably Nautile's
photo surveys of Brittany, France).  I have never seen a book or on-site
source depict what I call a "Reverse Groundline Hitch", which is tied as
a back'n'forth series of Half-hitches in line typically spiral-binding some
ropes or netting or one to the other.

And re such surveying usage 'tis why I lament at the IGKT's knot tyer's
gathering in the midst of much active knotting (New Bedford & Seattle
fishermen) but turning inward to see only decorative work and museum
artifacts (whose authenticity can be doubted, even).  Thankfully, we have
DFred's exploration of New Bedord's knotting wilds to look forward to.
(On my part, I've been remiss in not agressively pursuing contact with
two commercial fishers I'd had good communications w/in Cape May,
but on happenstance basis.  For one of those, at least, I know his name
and I think he's pretty easily findable.)

 - - - - - -

When I select produce at the market, I often place selections into a plastic
bag which I don't tie off with any of the knots I've seen recently posted;
I shop regularly, such is my fondness for eating -- several times daily.   ;D
The knot I tie off the bag with usually the Overhand, sometimes slipped.
It's an interesting dual-class knot:  held in hand, it might serve qua stopper,
opposed to my grip; but put into a larger bag and generally left to hold
the bag closed against escape-minded produce (pears, say, which naturally
resist being grouped in odd numbers), it serves I suppose qua bend
-- i.e., like the Offset Ring Bend (aka "EDK"), in unusual medium to be
thinking of that!

 ;)





backpacker

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #62 on: November 12, 2009, 04:29:41 AM »
I am afraid I am too late to help the topic starter, but still...

First of all, before any knotwork is started, a pupil must know how to store a rope neatly. Therefore, the Number One knot to learn is an alpine coil.
Now, I am neither a climber nor a sailor, just a humble backpacker. Storing food is a life essential for us, and that requires hanging it over a 20-or-more-feet-high tree branch, which in turn calls for some serious thickening of a rope end. My choice is a monkey fist. I confess I do tie it over a stone, which may be not appropriate for young boys to know. Nevertheless, some thickening knot is a must.
Next important camping activity is setting a tight rope between two trunks. That calls for a mooring hitch at one and a tautline at another. Tautline is also helpful for setting up an old-fashioned tent. They say that an adjustable grip works better - but not for me.
A backpacker also need some kind of loop; any good loop works, be it a bowline, a butterfly or an eight. I do not have personal preferences; they are equally beautiful and all do the job. Disclaimer: backpacker's life is not at the stake. Let's say, a butterfly it is.
As for bends, I do not remember when did I use a bend last time. I do though remember that is was a butterfly. For the sake of diversity (which is not necessarily good), I'd also teach a zeppelin.

Well, it makes it six, if I count right. The other four would be a constrictor (one with two and a half coils), a versatackle, and one for which I don't know an English name (see a Russian description - with pictures)

And, of course, a bowline.

squarerigger

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #63 on: November 12, 2009, 06:18:12 AM »
marlinespike hitch

SR

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2009, 06:54:46 AM »
marlinespike hitch
SR

Thanks, by which he --not wasting words!-- means:  "Backpacker, the Russian
knot you did not know the name for is called 'marlinespike hitch', in English.
And thanks for posting, welcome to the IGKT forum!".

 :)

backpacker

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #65 on: November 12, 2009, 08:23:38 AM »
marlinespike hitch
SR

Thanks, by which he --not wasting words!-- means:  "Backpacker, the Russian
knot you did not know the name for is called 'marlinespike hitch', in English.

Understood.

Quote
And thanks for posting, welcome to the IGKT forum!".

 :)

Thank you.

backpacker

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #66 on: November 12, 2009, 08:36:49 AM »
This forum doesn't let you edit your own posts.
That said, I have to add that this resource might be interesting. Not knowing Russian matters not. Just follow links and enjoy pictures.

DerekSmith

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2009, 06:25:51 PM »
Backpacker,

Babel helped but

"As the Russian people proverb cannot better approaches to it: " Knot is not great, yes is strong [zatyanut]". This unit, however one by another spoils rope, since it strongly bends it."

As proverbs go, that one goes right over my head.  Any clues?

Oh, and welcome.

Derek

backpacker

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2009, 07:05:59 PM »
Backpacker,

Babel helped but

"As the Russian people proverb cannot better approaches to it: " Knot is not great, yes is strong [zatyanut]". This unit, however one by another spoils rope, since it strongly bends it."

As proverbs go, that one goes right over my head.  Any clues?

Oh, and welcome.

Derek

Got it: не велик узелок, да затянут крепко. The whole thing translates rather as:
This knot in a best possible way illustrates the Russian proverb "the knot is small yet tied strongly". This knot, however damages the rope like no other knot can, since it bend it too much.

The proverbial meaning is that a little thing may have a great value. Or, that a seemingly simple situation may be very hard to resolve.

PS: Babel is really confused.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 08:48:47 PM by backpacker »

WebAdmin

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #69 on: November 13, 2009, 08:10:08 AM »
Hi Backpacker,

Just for information: it isn't something I used very often, and since I got made webadmin I can't be sure of whether I'm doing it or my status is, but you should be able to use the modify button next to your posts to edit them.

Regards,

Glenys
Lesley
WebAdmin

admin

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2009, 11:21:30 AM »
Just for information: it isn't something I used very often, and since I got made webadmin I can't be sure of whether I'm doing it or my status is, but you should be able to use the modify button next to your posts to edit them.

All registered forum users should be able to both modify and delete their own posts.

Transminator

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #71 on: April 30, 2010, 09:43:22 AM »
The 10+ knots should be easy to tie (and remember), easy to untie if possible, reliable and versatile.
These 12 knots I use regularly and cover most situations I encounter (backpacking/camping, survival trips, some fishing while doing so, doing stuff in and around the house). And even if they might not be the best choice of knots for every situation, armed with these I am confident to have at least one who does the job satisfactorily. There are other knots I use (e.g. the Zeppelin Loop) but perhaps to difficult to remember for the target audience.

Loops
1. bowline (+yosemite finish for critical use)
> using the rapid (slip knot) method as it is fast and can be used to easily tie the water bowline and double knotted bowline by using two loops for the slip knot  (*)
>that way you get three for the price of one.

2. butterfly loop and bend
> using the hybrid method > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeKLU_6NLv4 ,
which is also perfect for the butterfly bend by using the two ends as the middle section and they get two for the price of one

3. uniknot (sliding loop, fishing loop, bending fishing line)

Hitches:

4. Timberhitch
5. sailor's hitch
6. Adjustable Grip Hitch (camping etc.)

Bends:
7. Zeppelin bend, (think 69 > 6 goes on top of 9)
8. double overhand knot (> double fishermen's bend)
    butterfly bend
    uniknot

Fishing:
9. Palomar Loop
    Uniknot

Stopper:
10. figure 8
     Double overhand knot

Other:
11. Klemheist
(for climbing up ropes, lamp posts, other uses such us pulling a stuck pole out of the ground etc.)

Binders:
12. Constrictor
    (via the clove hitch and how to use the clove hitch for a buntline hitch, which gets them three for the price of one)
     Double overhand knot
in addition:
> the principle of tying slipped versions of knots
> the principle of securing a hitch with half hitches
> how to bend ropes using a standing loop (bowline),
> how to use the bowline as a running loop. (for traps, lasso etc.)
> how to use bowline and or butterfly for a versatackle
> how to do the trucker's hitch using loops and hitches.
> how to use the double overhand knot for a sliding loop and a hitch
> how to tie the HFP Slippery 8 based on the figure 8
> how to turn the figure 8 loop into the karash double loop
> other uses of the above learned knots I can't think of right now

I realize that these are more then 10 in total. But my point is that with only learning some knots and how to use them for different purposes and how to combine them (the trucker's hitch e.g. for me is not a knot in its own right, but just a combination of knots for a specific purpose), you get a lot more then the sum of its parts.
Best example is the figure 8. When you learned the figure 8, you can use it as a stopper, a barrel sling or apply it to a bight and you have the figure 8 loop. If you know the clove hitch, you can tie the constrictor, the buntline hitch (clove around standing part) once you are shown how.
The hard part is to memorize the different names for all these.

(*)
bowline: form a loop, pull the line up through the loop (to form a bight), push the end through the bight (from the front> dutch marine bowline, from the back> right handed bowline)> tension on the line creates the bowline.
waterbowline: form a loop, form another loop, put the first loop on top of the second loop, pull the line up through the loops (to form a bight), push the end through the bight > tension on the line creates the waterbowline.
double knotted bowline: form a loop, form another loop, put the second loop on top of the first loop, pull the line up through the loops (to form a bight), push the end through the bight > tension on the line creates the double knotted bowline.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 04:48:34 PM by Transminator »

Andy

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2010, 04:58:49 AM »
Hi Transminator,

Thank you for sharing your list!
I really enjoy seeing a collection like this that someone has put a lot of thought into.
Didn't know that "hybrid method" to tie a Butterfly, much appreciated that link to a video.
Still trying to get my head around the "slipped knot" bowline method, I'm awful with written instructions. :) Will go take a look in ABOK, maybe it's there...

Wishing you a fun day,

Andy
my selection of most useful knots

Transminator

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2010, 09:40:30 AM »
Hi Transminator,

Thank you for sharing your list!
I really enjoy seeing a collection like this that someone has put a lot of thought into.
Didn't know that "hybrid method" to tie a Butterfly, much appreciated that link to a video.
Still trying to get my head around the "slipped knot" bowline method, I'm awful with written instructions. :) Will go take a look in ABOK, maybe it's there...

Wishing you a fun day,

Andy


Hi Andy

Thanks for the comments.

Have a look at Mike Karash's video on the Karash Double Loop on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EyfYyJkZss
At around 2:00 he shows the slip knot method. (*)

Then I wondered if you could use this technique for a simpler method of tying the water bowline and double-knotted bowline (as I find the conventional method awkward and error prone) and it works perfectly!
If you create two loops at the start (for the slip knot), you find an easy way of tying the water bowline and the double-knotted bowline, depending on which loop you put in front of the other.

Here it goes:
> as in the video, form a loop.(**) hold the loop in place with your right thumb and index finger and form another loop right behind it (further left on the rope) with the same movement as for the first one (so that they have the same orientation > see image below).
you should now have the end to your right, the right hand should hold the first loop between thumb and index finger, the left should hold the second loop between thumb and index finger.

Then: (for the water bowline)
1. first loop stays in front (on top of) the second one> pull the line up through both of the loops to form a bight, put the end through the bight and tension on the line creates the water bowline (by pulling the bight back through the loops together with the end (as a bight))

or (for the double-knotted bowline)
2. put the second loop in front of (on top of) the first one and proceed as above and you end up with the double-knotted bowline.

Just try it a few times and I am sure you get the hang of it very quickly.
Once mastered, it only takes a few seconds to tie either one of them (single bowline with end inside or outside the loop, water bowline, double-knotted bowline).

Hope this makes it clear (sounds more difficult then it is)
Good Luck

Greetings from a German in Dublin (Ireland)

(*)
You can see he puts the end through the bight from the front, which creates the bowline with the end outside the loop (dutch marine bowline)
If you pass the end through the bight from the back, you end up with the end inside the bowline.

(**)
I do the loops like this:
the end of the rope is on your right
1. put the two first fingers of you left hand under the rope and then bend the fingers back over the rope
2. turn your left hand clockwise. Your fingers should then point downwards and be in the middle of the loop you thus created.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 10:15:50 AM by Transminator »

Andy

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Re: Top ten most useful knots.
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2010, 09:46:17 PM »

Hi Transminator,

Greetings from Australia. Hope you're enjoying the first days of spring there.

Thank you for your amazingly helpful and detailed message  :)

Leaving on a weeklong camping trip this morning, but looking forward to STUDY your message and attached material when I return!

Wishing you a fun day,

Andy
my selection of most useful knots