Author Topic: Identify and instructions? (Rose Knots)  (Read 21734 times)

Frayed Knot Arts

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 257
  • Knot too smart at times....
    • Frayed Knot Arts
Identify and instructions? (Rose Knots)
« on: September 10, 2008, 03:37:00 AM »
Here is a knot that was tied by A.C. Beaudoin, a Master Knotter from Connecticut, now passed away.  He called it one of his "Knots of Honour".



Larger view: http://www.frayedknotarts.com/files/20060122-5.jpg

I have been referring to this as a "Rose Knot" but I got a call tonite from a gent in California looking for instructions on how to tie one and realized I had not a clew as to how to do it.  I went to ABOK but couldn't find exactly this type of knot in either Chapt. 9 or 10, and rapidly became bemused (as always), rambling thru the book and being distracted by slashed caps, pointed hawsers and all the other little ills we knotters fall heir to.

(I digress... sorry)

At any rate, if any of us can tell me the correct name for this knot and possibly where one might find instructions for tying it, I should be grateful.   
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 12:15:56 PM by Webmistress »

PatDucey

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 280
  • IGKT Pacific Americas Branch
Re: Identify and instructions?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2008, 04:08:39 AM »
It's always easier to identify a knot when I can hold it in my hands.  It might be a series of Turks Heads.  Start with a 3L x 4B, wrap another over that one, and then add two more 3L x 5B.  Hard to tell without seeing the bottom of the knot, and it looks like there might be a spot of glue on the bottom of it to further obstruct observation.

Can you post a photo taken from directly over the top of the knot?  It is hard to identify tucks from this perspective.

Pat

Frayed Knot Arts

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 257
  • Knot too smart at times....
    • Frayed Knot Arts
Re: Identify and instructions?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2008, 12:45:25 PM »
Here's a shot from directly above (extracted from a larger pic of four)



And the knot also seems to appear on the cover of Graumont's book in the centre of both vertical sections:




Hope this helps.

I hadn't considered the "turk on turk" idea! 

Thanks, Pat!

Znex

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 72
Re: Identify and instructions?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2008, 03:03:24 PM »
I know this doesn't answer your question, but I remembered and found this discussion from almost a year ago at KHWW on that very knot.

http://www.khww.net/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=7&thread_id=178&pid=1219


Frayed Knot Arts

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 257
  • Knot too smart at times....
    • Frayed Knot Arts
Re: Identify and instructions?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2008, 07:15:51 PM »
Nautile just wrote chiding me for forgetting about that thread at KHWW... 
I have no brain, my mind is gone, and that is why I sing this song: I have no brain, my mind.....

PatDucey

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 280
  • IGKT Pacific Americas Branch
Re: Identify and instructions?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2008, 08:07:13 PM »
Thanks for posting the picture from straight above.  It still looks like a series of Turks Heads.  It might be that the one visible in the center is rotated so you are looking at the side of the knot.  It could be most anything, and it might have a core to help it hold shape.  The next one appears to have 6 bights, so could be a 5L x 6B, the outer one appears to have 5 bights, and may be either a 3L or 4L x 5B Turks Head, maybe even a 6L x 5B Turks Head.

I always have rejects of knots that might be lopsided, or just don't look right.  I don't ever want to throw them out, but I never use them, so they end up in a box of half finished work (it's a big box).  If you can contact A.C. Beaudoin heirs, they might have some of his "rejects", and you might find a few more examples of this knot.

Pat

Knot Head

  • Knot Head
  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 192
  • A knot is not just a knot...
Re: Identify and instructions?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2008, 04:51:34 PM »
Hi all...

Well I think I will go with Pat's description myself also. Except here's my little interjection on that knot.

I think that it was built on the same premise as the Captain Albert Whitney Rose Knot in the Abook starting with #894 the second half of the knot was most likely tied first, then the multi-stranded layered turks heads were then tied. Interesting how he achieved that second layer like he did. But I could be wrong and more than likely that would be the case.

Brian...

Regards,
Brian Kidd

oldpete

  • Trusted New Poster
  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
Re: Identify and instructions?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2008, 12:34:46 PM »
In Graumont and Hensel's book try plate 236 on Pg 437. There are various rose knots on plates 74 and 75 but none are clear enough.

mysticknotwork

  • Trusted New Poster
  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
    • MysticKnotWork
Re: Identify and instructions?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2008, 01:19:41 AM »
The way we tie them is a simple 3 pass monkey fist cored with a small plastic bead.  Then run a 3x2 turks head TIGHT onto it and a 3x3 turks head surrounding the other two knots.  The material is 845 braided nylon from Ashaway Line and Twine.  Ashaway primarily produces tennis racket cord and surgical suture thread.

(btw, Vince, I have been emailing you for over a month about our conversation at the Wooden Boat Show)

I am slowly building my website.  If you follow the link from my 'parked page' to my free site, I have linked a couple closeups of the same knot tied with 3 different line colors.  It makes the construction much more obvious.  He used to call them Rose Knots when teaching me...

Matt Beaudoin
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 01:29:51 AM by mysticknotwork »
been knotworking since before I could ride a bike, but still can't get it right.

Matt @
www.mysticknotwork.com

Frayed Knot Arts

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 257
  • Knot too smart at times....
    • Frayed Knot Arts
Re: Identify and instructions?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2008, 06:26:22 AM »
Bingo.  That works for me!

skyout

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 436
    • Fancy Knots by skyout
Re: Identify and instructions? (Rose Knots)
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2009, 08:04:41 AM »
Hi all,

If you're new to knotting and would like to make this beautiful "Knot of Honor", you can find tutorials for the Monkey's Fist at http://khww.net/viewpage.php?page_id=25. There are several Turk's Head Knot tutorials as well, I'm not sure about the two Matt describes, but Pat Ducey can make a grid upon request for almost any Turk's Head. Just shoot him or myself a PM if you need help. Pat is a great guy and always glad to help if he can!

Rick
skyout

decors

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
    • de Cor's Handmades
Re: Identify and instructions? (Rose Knots)
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2009, 04:31:36 AM »
Hello, from what I've seen, I think I might be able to contribute a little if you would allow me.

P/S i don't really know the name of the knots, but I did named them after their shapes for my design series.

To do this Rose knot, create a button knot and it would be the center heart of this creation, then add a layer of 4 petals knot, then add another layer of 5 petals knot - you will have this. I've done this with wires, but I substitute the button knot (cause I haven't made button knot with wires into a success that time yet, I recently made button knot into a success with wires) with beads, work out just as nice.

Here's some photos:





Different compositions.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 04:37:28 AM by decors »

Knot Head

  • Knot Head
  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 192
  • A knot is not just a knot...
Re: Identify and instructions? (Rose Knots)
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2010, 05:47:41 PM »
I know that this is a late chime in again. But now that some time has passed by. I will say that knot really looks like a Tudor Rose Knot.
Regards,
Brian Kidd