Author Topic: A New Stopper Knot?  (Read 14133 times)

Mike

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
A New Stopper Knot?
« on: May 20, 2005, 06:53:43 AM »
I was playing around with Ashleys stopper trying to develope a new stopper. I came up with one I have'nt seen before. Does this knot have a name? Or did i find one that is'nt named yet?  Check it out and see what you think. It makes a nice bulky stopper knot. I added white lines to the pictures for clarity.



Dan Lehman

  • Guest
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2005, 09:40:18 AM »
Voila, a stopper according to The Rule!  It looks good,
but before getting to it, completely, I was moved to try a
version where the SPart's arc/bight is given a half turn,
right side over left, then the tuck just as you show:
this seems to take the respective sides of the SPart's
arc more easily into it and for turning around & nipping
the end.  Btw, I'm working with a fairly stiff 11mm
caving kernmantle (BWII); you appear to have a quite
supple yachting line, dble. braid?

I've not seen the knot before.

--dl*
====

Mike

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2005, 03:48:53 AM »
Thanks for the reply Dan. It seems out of 30 people thats viewd this post your the only one with an opinion. :-/

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3931
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2005, 08:31:55 AM »
Quote
Thanks for the reply Dan. It seems out of 30 people thats viewd this post your the only one with an opinion. :-/

Or perhaps the others will have considered opinions currently taking
shape via some knot "popping" by Jimbo or PABPRES, or other extended
fiddling.

:)

Willeke

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 433
  • knopen . ismijnhobby . nl
    • Willeke's knotted Ideas
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2005, 01:25:00 PM »
I do have an opinion, but not enough knowledge on the top of my head and I am to lazy to check the facts.
But this is a fairly simple knot and it is either found and in use or found and put to rest because there are better alternatives.
Good luck in finding which it turns out to be.

Willeke
"Never underestimate what a simple person can do with clever tools,
nor what a clever person can do with simple tools." - Ian Fieggen

Writer of A booklet on lanyards, available from IGKT supplies.

Mike

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2005, 05:05:22 PM »
Just because its simple doesnt mean it has actually been named and put to use. Ashleys stopper is simple also, but he still got to name it.

Dan Lehman

  • Guest
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2005, 08:50:24 PM »
Quote
it is either found and in use, or found and put to rest because there are better alternatives.

One would like to think this, but it's hardly true.  I've seen many knot structures
in use that could (should) be replaced with simpler and even more effective
ones, but aren't.  The ones in use work well enough and are familiar,
and the user moves on.
Ashley's Stopper is such a knot, as is Rosendahl's bend ("Zeppelin"),
but are they much used (and since when)?  The Twixie is also simple
and effective, but aside from Geoffrey's article in KM, I'm unaware
of any other occurrence of it (even in his own books!)?

The discovery and promulgation of alternatives is erractic; there is much
resistance to new ideas.

Quote
Just because its simple doesnt mean it has actually been named and put to use. Ashley's stopper is simple also, but he still got to name it.

And his name has happily been mostly overridden by the name we're
now using ("Oysterman's Stopper" being a misnomer, as is  also
"Rigger's Bend" & "Heaving Line Bend" (as told by Sten a few recent
KMs ago)).  Naming knots is tough!  Names that seem apt when considering only
a small set of knots (of different types) can be seen to be equally apt
for a collection of versions & variations, once revealed, for those
names that try to be descriptive (e.g. "overhand loop").  Personal names
are sometimes unique, but sometimes misleading ("Hunter's Bend" isn't
used by hunters any more than by riggers (or smiths, for that matter!)),
and don't help if a knot fiddler discovers loads of knots (Franz Bachmann
has many friction hitches beyond what carries his name).

--dl*
====

Willeke

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 433
  • knopen . ismijnhobby . nl
    • Willeke's knotted Ideas
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2005, 12:44:02 PM »
I should have said: "better or more known alternatives".
But what we search are the knots that have made it to paper, (and its modern replacements as internet,) but there are a lot of knots in daily use that never officially have been named.
At work we often use the packaging knot and none of my fellow workers know that it even has a name, and several of those fellow workers find it to difficult to remember the final half hitch to lock it so they use all kinds of different ways to tie the knot off, several failing more often than not but some successfull. None of those knots has been named, (other than, in my mind, "it is the packaging knot finished Stephans way",) but they do still exist.

I belief that all simple effective knots have been found and are in use somewere in the world, but often not made it to the books.
Most books used to be written for sailors and ignored all knots used by landsfolk, foreigners and those knots not approved of my the masters aboard. From the start of printed knot manuals the knots not included were seen as inferior, because they were not in the books. And from the time people did not learn their knots from an older generation but from the books more and more knots have disapeared  from view (or seemed to) in the western world but will still be used were this developement has not yet taken place.

If asked for an opinion, you can be sure to get one from me.

Willeke
"Never underestimate what a simple person can do with clever tools,
nor what a clever person can do with simple tools." - Ian Fieggen

Writer of A booklet on lanyards, available from IGKT supplies.

Mike

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2005, 06:43:25 AM »
Willeke,

             I feel the stopper knot Shown in this post, weather I discovered it or not, is a very good stopper knot. I feel it is bulkier and has a better overall shape than Ashleys stopper. I read alot about ashleys stopper, but have never seen this one. Thas what lead me to believe that it has not been published.  In my opinion it is a better Stopper knot than any I have seen yet.

knot_tyer

  • Guest
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2005, 11:49:06 AM »
hello Mike..
...it is indeed a great little knot!..
...i'm not sure but i do think that there is an
IGKT committee formed just for the sole
purpose of settling these exact issues?!
...wouldn't it be cool to have a knot named
after you?!!...
Dan-Alaska   8)

hmmm...maybe we can discuss it in
IGKT Knot_Chat next week!?!   ::)

Mike

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2005, 12:05:16 AM »
Anyone found oout if this knot has a name yet? or do I get to name it?    ;D

knudeNoggin

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 111
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2005, 09:03:25 AM »
Quote
Anyone found out if this knot has a name yet? or do I get to name it?    ;D

This question implies an either-or condition and some relationship
therein which I don't see evidenced in knot-world reality.   :P

I'll suggest "Tucked Fig.8 Noose Stopper", based on #1116.

Btw, for a 4-sided version of Ashley's Stopper, follow that Nip-The-End
rule, previously described, for #1125.  (Poor Jimbo has another
"bight" to deal with, if he chooses.)

*knudeNoggin*

Jimbo

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 114
  • Happy Knotting!
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2005, 11:05:52 PM »
Quote

Btw, for a 4-sided version of Ashley's Stopper, follow that Nip-The-End rule, previously described, for #1125.  (Poor Jimbo has another "bight" to deal with, if he chooses.)

*knudeNoggin*

<ROTFLOL>...  
(Where's the "smiley" for "puts tongue in cheek"?)

Knot me, man!!  I refuse to deal with bights!  I just "knibble"!!  Well, at least you got the "poor" part right!  ;D

(Insert your own mental picture for the "smiley" for "takes tongue back OUT of cheek".)

Especially since DanL was kind enough to clue us all in to the underlying technique!!  I'm a stopper-knot-inventin'-fool since then!!  I may even stop making eye splices & just build stopper knots from here on in!!   ;)  You reckon the Good People of Cordage can take it?

And the "turban" look in Ashley's Oysterman's (son of Thrain, son of Dain, son of Throth, son of Pika, lord of the Talus on the High Mountains  ;D) Stopper might look better with four "{whatever-you-wanna-call-it}"s instead of three.  How does the "nip the end rule" make the "curvy bits" come out to four?  Double the OH before you "nip the end", perhaps?  Tried that, did it wrong, as it looks like a pile of poo.  Just curious, as I do think I'd like to see four "knees" there (sorry I said "bights" everybody!  It was the first word that came out of my keyboard!  I promise to only say "curvy bits" like a real pro henceforth.   :-[).  Three obviously works, but there's a specific application I have in mind where the "square"-ish look of four "curves" at the "stopping end" ("working end"? "knot/hole interface"? what's in a name?) of the knot would work exceptionally well.  And yes, as soon as I can get (use of) a digicam I'll be tossing my "Pet Rope Harness" (not its real name) into the "fray"...

I'd still like to get rid of that "cigar", though...  IF that won't cause it to fail!!  So far nary a stopper has the "eye appeal"  ;) of the Tack/Manrope knot, IMNERHO.  (Yes, there's a "Jimbo story" about a stopper & an eye, but I'm saving that for later.)

TTFN, kinkers!  Back to work!
Thank you all, for everything.  As of 6/6/6, I have changed my password to a random string (which I forgot), thereby assuring that anyone posting as "Jimbo" in the future will NOT be me.  Good luck!!!

KnotNow!

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 368
  • IGKT-PAB PAST PRESIDENT
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2005, 11:13:37 PM »
Hi Jimbo,  Don't get rid of the "cigar", or at least consider keeping it.  If you tug on the cigar you have a pretty good chance of untieing the stopper (and that seems to apply to the Oysterman and all these discussed above).  If you bury the end then the knot may become a forever feature of your pet rope.
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

Jimbo

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 114
  • Happy Knotting!
Re: A New Stopper Knot?
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2005, 11:47:02 PM »
Quote
If you bury the end then the knot may become a forever feature of your pet rope.

Howdy, Mr. President!

If you could see what my former favorite stopper knots look like - especially after being whacked up against a cleat horn a few (dozen) times, you might not throw "forever" about so readily!   ;)

You're right, of course!!  But in this particular case, I want "forever".  I'm more worried that there's nothing but attitude keeping the SPart from reeving through the knot itself...  I haven't hauled on a "good" one yet, though (who has?), so it's all still speculation.

Glad yer back!
Thank you all, for everything.  As of 6/6/6, I have changed my password to a random string (which I forgot), thereby assuring that anyone posting as "Jimbo" in the future will NOT be me.  Good luck!!!