Author Topic: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together  (Read 615 times)

breadwild

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Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« on: August 26, 2019, 06:01:56 PM »
Hi all,

I ran into a problem the other day when simply trying to tie two 2x4 boards together for a brief time when carrying them (hence, no lashing techniques).

The knots I tried (buntline, grip hitch, timberline) loosened when the two objects tried to pull away from each other (they were under some pressure to separate), especially with some movement or vibration. I surmised a knot that is very secure when the stress is pulling from the outside doesn't necessarily do well when the stress is coming from the inside and pushing outwards.

A square knot seems to do the best, but the issue there is trying to hold that first over-under tight while you tie the final knot. It would be nice to have a knot that cinches tightly after tied but hold the objects together.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Brad

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Brad
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agent_smith

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Re: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2019, 12:05:11 AM »
Hello breadwild,
Thanks for posting your question here on the IGKT forum.
I am confident that you will find your answer from one of the knotting experts here!

Can you clarify...
You want to "tie two 2x4 boards together for a brief time when carrying them".
Do you mean end to end or do you mean superposed? (refer images)
I presume you mean superposed (one on top of the other).

Also, what is 2x4 in units (ie 2 feet x 4 feet or is it 2m x 4m)?

Can you have holes drilled into the boards to allow rope/cord to feed through?
Or is drilling holes not possible - or ruins the timber finish?

Some clarification would be helpful...
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 05:39:11 AM by agent_smith »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2019, 12:58:29 AM »
Hi all,

I ran into a problem the other day when simply trying to tie two 2x4 boards together for a brief time when carrying them (hence, no lashing techniques).
"no lashings" might be too harsh?
For if you wrap the boards a few times,
the inevitable looseness of your securing
sqare/reef knot is *amortized* over this
greater number of wraps, so has less effect.

Otherwise, you might try running a bight around
the boards and putting in a *double* larkshead
aka girth hitch --by which I mean that one
takes the twin SParts one time again through the
bight tip, which casts a full turn/wrap of that
around them, and gives thus some friction grip
to hold the tightening (which then can be tied
off in various ways, 2 B sure(r)!).  --happens to
be my belt, at the moment : 3/4"-ish arbor webbing
doubled, one end the bight center through which
I bring the two ends and turn around one side
once and then pull on the ends to cast the turn
into the bight ... .


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breadwild

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Re: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2019, 07:16:21 PM »
@agent_smith Thanks! These are super-imposed, or lying one on the top of the other. The size of the boards are arbitrary, meaning it could be anything: logs, poles, etc. I just need a quick tie solution because I would be doing this over and over again with each of many loads.
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Brad
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breadwild

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Re: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2019, 07:35:59 PM »
Quote
"no lashings" might be too harsh?
For if you wrap the boards a few times,
the inevitable looseness of your securing
sqare/reef knot is *amortized* over this
greater number of wraps, so has less effect.

@Dan_Lehman Ah, I see what you mean by the wrapping before the reef knot. I tried it and it was easier to tie and held nicely. I also tried modified "trucker's hitch" passing the working end through a bowline on the other end and then a couple of half hitches. That way I could pull it tight, but not as quick to untie for the next load.

Thanks!
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Brad
breadwild@gmail.com

PolymathArtisan

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Re: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2019, 11:42:49 AM »
Quote
I surmised a knot that is very secure when the stress is pulling from the outside doesn't necessarily do well when the stress is coming from the inside and pushing outwards.

This is exactly right. Thw knots you mention are hitches. Although they do go around things (like pairs of boards), they are meant to stay strong and secure as the line is pulled away, not necessarily to pull very tigh around the object (especially when there is not tension on the end, but in dome cases ever: the midshipmans hitch does not draw up toght around an object automatically). What you need is a binding knot, designed to pull a bundle of objects together.

My instinct would be a constrictor or double constrictor  (for extra security). Tie one aeou d each end of the boards when places together and you ahould be fine. You could even use one long line and tie both knots

asemery

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Re: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2019, 01:35:12 PM »
I have had good results tying hard items together with the   

Canadian jam knot.

I use a slipped overhand knot for the initial knot to facilitate untying

breadwild

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Re: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2019, 08:08:44 PM »
I have had good results tying hard items together with the   

Canadian jam knot.

I use a slipped overhand knot for the initial knot to facilitate untying

Very nice. Never heard of that one. I'm anxious to try it. Thanks!
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breadwild

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Re: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2019, 03:06:26 PM »
I have had good results tying hard items together with the   

Canadian jam knot.

I use a slipped overhand knot for the initial knot to facilitate untying

Very nice. Never heard of that one. I'm anxious to try it. Thanks!

I tried the Canadian Jam knot and it loosened around the objects very quickly. The square/reef knot, with a few preliminary turns, per Dan_Lehman, is much more secure in this application.

Brad
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Knutern

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Re: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2019, 04:41:27 PM »
What about a double cow hitch?

It should fit corners pretty well.
I'm aiming for knots that is secure, AND that is easy to untie.

jmlucassen

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Re: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2019, 08:43:50 PM »
My instinct would be a constrictor or double constrictor  (for extra security). Tie one aeou d each end of the boards when places together and you ahould be fine. You could even use one long line and tie both knots

If you try the constrictor knot, bear in mind that it is difficult to untie (by design!) but if you tie it near the end of the boards you could slip it off and then the knot will fall apart.

asemery

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Re: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2019, 11:21:31 AM »

I tried the Canadian Jam knot and it loosened around the objects very quickly. The square/reef knot, with a few preliminary turns, per Dan_Lehman, is much more secure in this application.

Brad
Perhaps if you tied a slipped half hitch against the jam knot with the working end.  That would prevent the end from loosening.
I used a softish cotton cord #60 with no slipping problems.  Tony

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Best knot to tie two objects tightly together
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2019, 03:59:56 PM »
My instinct would be a constrictor or double constrictor  (for extra security). ...

If you try the constrictor knot, bear in mind that it is difficult to untie (by design!) but if you tie it near the end of the boards you could slip it off and then the knot will fall apart.
???

1) Knots such as the constrictor that require pressure
against the bound object for security are NOT what should
be used here --the flat boards won't give much of that (to
a likely not-so-large-diameter binding rope).

2) And the difficulty of untying the c. is overstated,
too much parroting of Ashley's "... have to cut it off"
nonsense (esp. for some users who might be in other
instances employing a marlinespike!).

3) Now, one can form a sort of Gleipnir'd constrictor/
by making a clove hitch in hand such that one casts
each *half* past the other (i.e., oriented so that one is
looking at the cross section of a cylinder onto which the
formed knot is to be placed, with ends coming from left
& right, the loop formed from left would be thrust
rightwards past the opposite (left end's loop) loop/half,
AND THEN
rotate one or other (or both halfway) around the central
crossing "bar" of the hitch and bring loops back into
ready-to-place-over-object position.
.:.  The above turn puts a "turNip/nipping turn" into
the crossing part, and thereby gives nipping independent
of the object.
(And the crossing of ends that makes this a version of
constrictor is IMO gratuitous --one would prefer the
basic Gleipnir, but that knot isn't tiable in the bight.)


--dl*
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