International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Fancy and Decorative Knotwork => Fancy Knotwork Tutorials => Topic started by: turks head 54 on January 06, 2008, 08:25:45 AM

Title: Pineapple Knot
Post by: turks head 54 on January 06, 2008, 08:25:45 AM
Can anyone direct me to a site that can tell me how to tie a pineapple knot?

Thanks,
Turks Head54
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: Takler on January 06, 2008, 11:15:57 AM
Hi TH54,

Lets try to find some instructions on the net: www.knotical-arts.com/granthall.html

brgds

Marcin
Takler
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: oldpete on January 06, 2008, 03:36:52 PM
some more info at

http://www.khww.net/news_cats.php

would recommend any of the books on turk's-head knots

Tom Hall
Ron Edwards
Bruce Grant
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: J.Knoop on July 04, 2008, 08:50:13 PM
Tom Hall has the most and best illustrated Pineapple Knots - and a bit more.
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: Knot Head on July 11, 2008, 05:49:11 AM
If you have never tied a 5part 4bight turks head you will need to know how to tie that knot before attempting this tutorial. Here is a link to Bud's tutorial on the basic pineapple knot.
http://www.khww.net/readarticle.php?article_id=34 (http://www.khww.net/readarticle.php?article_id=34)
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: skyout on February 28, 2009, 04:51:49 AM
Dan Alaska has posted some excellent tutorials on the PKs at his Pineapple Knot Forum site.
I tied almost everyone of them and can say they are GREAT!!! He starts off with a basic PK and before you know it you're tying a ~ ...type 3 - 4 pass (from a 7x6 turk's head). By following Dan's rules, I was able to tie a 32 part x 36 bight, 6 pass, Type 1 Pineapple knot. Whoo Hoo! Thanks Dan for your great tuts!

This link below will take you to the tutorials. Check them out; they've got plenty of pics that lead you step by step thru tying different PKs!!!
http://pineapple.myfunforum.org/index.php?c=20 (http://pineapple.myfunforum.org/index.php?c=20)

Tom Hall's Intro to Turk's Heads has been mentioned in a post above but I believe it can be mentioned again as it is a tremendous help in learning the PK. You can get a copy of Intro to TH by Hall from Marty Combs' site at:
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/skateworld/index.html (http://www.angelfire.com/ak/skateworld/index.html)

Hall uses diagrams to help explain the PKs. To give you an idea here is the diagram I made for the latest PK I tied (mentioned above).
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/2402/diagramtype16passsmallon0.jpg)

I had run out of orange line and used pink that I replaced later when I got more orange. Here's the breakdown of the casa passes by color.
(http://www.khww.net/forum/attachments/6passtype1graph.jpg)

And the graph lined to the PK:
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2321/graphpk6passtype1.jpg)

I would also recommend the following to anyone learning or wanting to learn how to tie a PK.

Sidney Wood has an abundance of great info on the interweaving of casa knots and a whole lesson on the Pineapple Interweave.
http://www.taylortel.net/~stwood/interweaves.html (http://www.taylortel.net/~stwood/interweaves.html)

His lessons on paralleling of a part of the primary knot and especially recognizing the parallel pairs and splitting them properly were invaluable.
http://www.taylortel.net/~stwood/newiwintro.html (http://www.taylortel.net/~stwood/newiwintro.html)

I guess we all learn at our own pace, but recognizing/seeing the pairs was really hard for me until Sidney's excellent lesson finally sunk in. Now I can see the pairs while tying. WhooHoo! Thanks Sidney!

Now I want to "see" the finished knot while I'm tying it, but that hasn't happened yet.

Rick
skyout
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: SS369 on February 28, 2009, 03:20:21 PM
Terrific additions to the tutorials Rick.

Thank you for taking the time for all of us out here in Knotland.

Dan's Tutorials are excellent and have helped me more than I can put to words.

And has been stated before, KHWW is a loaded environment for those would would like to learn some decorative twiddlings. Some inspiring knotwork on dsiplay there.

And talk about inspirations, we would be remiss in knot adding Vince's
http://www.frayedknotarts.com/tutor1.html
here as well

Thanks again Rick!

SS
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: skyout on March 31, 2009, 05:11:57 AM
If you have never tied a 5part 4bight turks head you will need to know how to tie that knot before attempting this tutorial. Here is a link to Bud's tutorial on the basic pineapple knot.
http://www.khww.net/readarticle.php?article_id=34 (http://www.khww.net/readarticle.php?article_id=34)
KHWW has 3 tutorials (one of them is Bud's doing it the old way) on how to make the 5part 4bight turks head needed for this fine tutorial. Bud's PK tutorial in the link Brian shows above is the one that taught me the Under 2 at the X rule.

Turks Head 5 Lead 4 bight in string by Loren Damewood
Turks head 5 lead by 4 bights the old way by Bud Brewer
Turks head grids 3x7, 3x4, 5x6 and 5x4 by Patrick Ducey

All these fine tutorials can be found on this page:
http://khww.net/viewpage.php?page_id=25 (http://khww.net/viewpage.php?page_id=25)

Bud also gave us this:
Quote
I don?t know anything about types, an I definitely don?t know anything about the math of these things. Long ago I sat down an figured out the way the passes go under an wrote it down. Lost it an so, redid it again. I think it is correct. Maybe this will help with the knots
PINEAPPLES

2 pass ? first pass under 2 at the top, under 2 at the bottom. There after, under 3 both top and bottom. (basic pineapple)
3 pass ? first pass under 2 at top, under 4 at bottom. There after under 3 at top and under 5 at bottom
4 pass ? first pass under 2 at top, under 6 at bottom. There after under 3 at top and under 7 at bottom
5 pass ? first pass under 2 at top, under 8 at bottom. There after under 3 at top and under 9 at bottom
6 pass ? first pass under 2 at top, under 10 at bottom. There after under 3 at top and under 11 at bottom

here are some of the pineapples. the 6 pass is the blue door stop in the gallery
(http://khww.net/forum/attachments/pineapples.jpg)

http://khww.net/photogallery.php?photo_id=699 (http://khww.net/photogallery.php?photo_id=699)
(http://khww.net/images/photoalbum/album_2/door-stops_t1.jpg)



Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: gtech on April 10, 2009, 02:30:30 PM
Dan Alaska has posted some excellent tutorials on the PKs at his Pineapple Knot Forum site.
....

I would also recommend the following to anyone learning or wanting to learn how to tie a PK.

Sidney Wood has an abundance of great info on the interweaving of casa knots and a whole lesson on the Pineapple Interweave.
http://www.taylortel.net/~stwood/interweaves.html (http://www.taylortel.net/~stwood/interweaves.html)

His lessons on paralleling of a part of the primary knot and especially recognizing the parallel pairs and splitting them properly were invaluable.
http://www.taylortel.net/~stwood/newiwintro.html (http://www.taylortel.net/~stwood/newiwintro.html)


I guess we all learn at our own pace, but recognizing/seeing the pairs was really hard for me until Sidney's excellent lesson finally sunk in. Now I can see the pairs while tying. WhooHoo! Thanks Sidney!

Now I want to "see" the finished knot while I'm tying it, but that hasn't happened yet.

Rick
skyout

I am a newcomer and a still a newbie about knots, and I like to try my hand at something harder to do like the Pineapple knot to keep the motivation going instead of staying with the simple knots. And I must say that the best way of seeing them is the way Sidney Wood shows them with the colored charts.

Thanks for posting the links to his site, because that's what put me on the right track when I searched on info on the Pineapple knot. I looked at a lot of other explanation without success, but now I think I begin to see the light...

Gilles
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: skyout on April 12, 2009, 02:45:44 AM
Gilles,

Welcome to the forum, it's great to have you joining us. I just looked over Sidney's great site again, I have so much more to learn! LOL

We'd love to see some pics if you have some!
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: skyout on June 03, 2009, 05:18:04 AM
Here's my second shark tooth trophy PK fob. You can find/pick these teeth up off the beach all day long in Venice Beach, FL, USA.

An 8 strand square sennit to a 5/8" wooden core drilled in two places (out both sides) for the 16 strands of red and black 1/16" nylon line. I drilled 2 holes to accept both ends of the sq. sennit (they are not tied together at the base) so the constrictor knots holding them would not be seen.

I hand carved the core for the base of the shark's tooth and I also had to reshape the base of the tooth with a hand file before gluing it in. The base of the PK will actually hold the tooth in place once tightened. I used a 12part X 12bright, 2 pass, Type 1 pineapple knot for the covering.

Hope you guys like it!

My daughter took this pic for me in her own hand!

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5882/sharkfob.jpg)
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: Knot Head on June 03, 2009, 09:04:12 AM
Very nice work rick.
 :)
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: skyout on June 03, 2009, 06:15:11 PM
Thanks Brian.
I can't really put in words how thankful I am to you personally for all the help you've given me over time. My skills are where they are today because of your encouragement and help in my quest to learn how to tie a PK. So, thanks again so much for everything. GO KHWW!!!
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: Knot Head on June 04, 2009, 05:12:02 PM
That braid you used at the top really brings it together and does not take away from the final look of the fob. The whole thing is just themed right together with the different geometrical looks to it. The fob really comes together and compliments itself.

Rick thank you for your kind comments. The only thing I did was recognize that there was someone needing help & a push. LOL... You did the rest all by yourself... Really, the only thing I did was set fire to the desire. I did that with my secret weapon. LOL...

Brian...
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: skyout on June 04, 2009, 11:33:21 PM
Well, thanks for all of that!!! It really means a lot coming from you.

The 8 strand sq. braid can also be found in Bud's great list of tuts. I had made them with one color but he recommended how to use the 2 colors in this fashion.
http://khww.net/articles.php?article_id=40 (http://khww.net/articles.php?article_id=40)

Keep firing the secret weapon! :) :)

Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: skyout on July 02, 2009, 07:07:26 PM
Another one for my better half. She loved it!

A 4 strand sennit secured into the 5/8" wooden ball with a 12part X 12bright, 2 pass, Type 1 pineapple knot.

(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/11/viksfixsmall.jpg)

I was asked several times how I secure the sennit to the core so I thought I'd share how I did it here: The wooden core came with a hole thru the center. I gathered the 8 strands together and put a constrictor knot at the base of the joined braid. I then was able to get the size (diameter) of the 8 strands together so I could redrill the hole to the correct size (just a little bigger). Don't try holding the wooden ball with your hand while drilling, use pliers or a vise for safety. Then push all 8 strands thru the top and out the bottom of the wooden core, making sure the constrictor knot is buried inside the hole and just out of view. I cut the strands coming out of the bottom off leaving about 1/4" sticking out. Grab the bic lighter and set it on fire. Turn the ball around and around so the strands all burn together evenly. Once it reaches the bottom of the hole I use the smooth surface of the lighter to blend it out smooth by pushing on the melting cord. With a little practice you kind of know when to start smoothing it out, it needs to cool down just a little bit after you blow it out. You want it to burn inside the hole a little and out bigger than the hole so it will hold good.Any big lumps get remelted and smoothed out again with the lighter. I have not tried it because remelting works good but I think you could use a hand file to smooth any lumps, too.

My second shark tooth trophy PK (the red and black one shown on the previous page) I had to drill two holes, one out each side because of the tooth in the bottom. It worked OK. I used the melted nylon cord to fill where the drill got too close to the surface and came out (ripped the ball) before the end of the hole.

Please see a safety concern from my good friend SS369:
Quote
Good explanation of the securing of the braid.

If you were to take the next sized drill bit and enlarge just one end of the finished hole, you will have a counter bore for the melted blob to pull back up into and that might save your finger or keep you from possibly melting the plastic lighter.
Not sure what the safety rating of those throwaway lighters are but there has been some news of people doing weird things to their faces with a disposable lighter mishap.

Better safe than disfigured I always say.
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: Barry on July 02, 2009, 07:46:38 PM
How Do Rick  ;)

Very Nice looking work, and a good explaination of your loop attachment method, the flower's quite pretty too ;)
Thanks for sharing.

Take care,
Barry ;)
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: skyout on July 02, 2009, 09:58:03 PM
Thanks Barry.

The orchid, like her new key fob, is one of my wife's favorites, too. LOL

It has 2 blooms today and when all the buds bloom together it is quite spectacular.
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: skyout on January 25, 2010, 06:19:12 AM
I made a tutorial/grid that Brian posted at KHWW in the tutorial section.
It is for the 16 part x 16 bright 2 pass Type 1 Pineapple Knot.
This one is from a base 9px8b Turks Head with a 7px8b Turk's Head
interweave, which gives 3 zigzags in the finished knot.
I hope everyone enjoys it. Just click the link below.

http://khww.net/articles.php?article_id=145 (http://khww.net/articles.php?article_id=145)

This is one from 5/32" line from Home Depot still on a 1 1/4" dowel in University of Florida colors. Go Gators!
(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/979/1003710small.jpg)

KHWW.net is in a rebuild stage and all the tutorials aren't up yet, but if you join Leatherworker.net (a great site) you can still view this tutorial here: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?app=gallery&image=7662 (http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?app=gallery&image=7662)
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: Untangling on July 31, 2010, 09:43:54 AM
This is a beautiful not.. Probably one of my favourites I've really only ever used this for practical reasons but I really like the two colour designs! I'm off to make one now!
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: Rrok007 on August 01, 2010, 12:51:47 PM
Rick, did you dye those ropes yourself?
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: DEE on August 01, 2010, 01:43:22 PM
Math is not my strong point. I can't count to 21 unless I'm naked. I have never  been able to fathom the chart on page 234 ABOK and could never understand the formula for THKs. I have just tied my first successfull PK thanks to your chart. It is being tightened up on my thumbstick. It will definitely not be the last. I have some beach rocks {perfect egg shapes} to experiment on next. Many thanks for making it clear to me after all this time. I use foam pipe insulation in the middle of a paper roll and then stuff the hole with strips of a kitchen sponge. It works for meD
P.S. Please don't start a seperate thread on this but it appears that the million dollar roll here in Canada is slightly smaller than yours. I had to use the paper towel roll.   D
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: skyout on August 11, 2010, 08:41:30 AM
Sorry for the late replys; we've just recently recieved another new grandson in the family.

Thanks Untangling,

Post a pic sometime for us.

Hi 007,

I think the only thing I've dyed were Easter eggs. lol The blue and orange is a 5/32" line I found at Home Depot here in FL. It's a little big for PK key fobs, but I've used it on ship's wheels and Xmas ornaments.

Hi Dee,

I am really happy to hear that, it was my pleasure as I just wanted to give something back after all the help I've recieved here and other sites mentioned earlier. Thank you so much for posting the results of your PK. We'd love to see a pic sometime, too. Tom Hall's book mentioned (with links) several times in previous posts of this thread has grids for smaller PKs that will help with learning to tie this beautiful knot. You may also want to go to the Pineapple Knot Forum and try Dan Alaska's great tuts (also mentioned earlier with links) where you tie them on mandrels without a grid. He has great pictures and comments/hints and it's how I learned the "rules" so you won't need the grid. His tutorials are the next best thing to having someone show you in person how to tie a PK. JMO

Wow, it never crossed my mind that other countries might have different size TP tubes. If you would like the grid sized to CA TP specs I would be happy to do it for you. I usually resize them in Adobe but you can also resize them in Microsoft WORD. I've also just taken a cereal box, cut it to fit the grid size and then just tape it up into a tube. Resizing the grid and using the cereal box method is handy when you know the core size you want as it cuts down a lot of time when "dressing" the knot.
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: EyeHunter27 on July 29, 2012, 08:37:43 PM
Found this old thread and started using the grid this weekend.  Not sure what I will put them all on, but will find a use.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n267/thuppert/0073.jpg)

Increased the size to 150% thinking I could make a beer coozie out of cord.  Junior found the pattern and came up with a better plan.  Nailed it flat and started weaving.  Not sure how it will turn out, but a cool idea.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n267/thuppert/0014.jpg)

Glad I found this thread, it has been very helpful.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: 4ever_SaGa on May 28, 2014, 12:18:57 PM
Greetings all,

Sam Garza here, new member with what I hope won't be too newbie a question. So, are there set rules for PKs? I recently tied a doubled 4b13p TH and decided to try my hand at a PK interweave. What I ended up with looks right, but I didn't have to split pairs as the gentleman whose tutorial I followed demonstrated. So, is it a PK or something that resembles one?

(http://i57.tinypic.com/nd0nxx.jpg)

Sincerely,
Sam Garza
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: Wed on May 28, 2014, 02:09:39 PM
Welcome!

I'd call it a TH with 4 passes in the centre section. While the colours fit the bill for a PK, the pattern does not. If you tied it with only one colour it would show a "under one, over one" pattern that is the TH. Your black base knot has two passes, as has the red interweave. But they are all synchronized into one part.

The PK has a "under two, over two" pattern. In textiles, it's called "twill".

As I have made up my own terminology, many of the classic words have gone me by. But the interweave should have been shifted one part. That way, it will not only be more stable, it will also dress better on irregular surfaces.
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: 4ever_SaGa on May 28, 2014, 10:20:37 PM
Thanks Wed,

I see it now. Still learning and having fun. Not to beat a dead horse, but I was wondering if you, or anyone else reading this thread. could give me some direction in terms of books to read. I already own:

Creative Ropecraft  by Stuart Grainger
The Complete Book of Decorative Knots by Geoffrey Budworth
The Maarlinspike Sailor by Hervey Garrett Smith

I'm interested in PKs and interweaves in general.  Any thoughts? Forgive me if I missed other threads regarding this subject.  Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,
Samuel Garza
Title: Re: Pineapple Knot
Post by: Wed on May 28, 2014, 11:54:10 PM
A new thread would be appropriate ...

I "cracked the code" in my own way after several failings. It has been my meaning to write it down for a long while and present it to the public. But there are other things in the queue before that one comes to surface.

I don't know if this short description will make sense to you:
These are the simple rules I follow. But granted, I wouldn't get it myself without clear pictures. Some of my knowledge stems from the late Dan "Alaska" Callahan. See what you can find of his legacy on the net.