International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Chit Chat => Topic started by: Derek Scammon on May 04, 2005, 06:51:46 AM

Title: Frustrated
Post by: Derek Scammon on May 04, 2005, 06:51:46 AM
What i'm looking for is someone who can tell me how to do the decorative wrap you often see on railings in the navy.  The whole railing is wrapped with light twine, with a spiralling ridge of knots running the length of the wrap.  Anyone who can help me out, I'd really appreciate it!

Title: Re: Frustrated
Post by: knot_tyer on May 04, 2005, 08:16:24 AM
hello Derek...
...there are many types of sounds like you are looking for French Hitching?!...a good book with a few basic wraps is The Marlinspike Sailor by Hervey Garrett can get it at most book stores or at ....this was my first knot i have over 150!...
Dan-Alaska   8)
Title: Re: Frustrated
Post by: Lasse_C on May 04, 2005, 10:33:41 AM
I agree with Dan, it can hardly be anything else than French Hitching. I second his recommendation of Marlinspike sailor, and would like to add the suggestion to look in ABOK if you can get your hands on it.

You can also simply play and experiment with cord, putting half hitches on top of each other on a rod. One string, two strings, change directions... Working with two strings, hitching in opposite directions gives two crossing spirals.

Lasse C
Title: Re: Frustrated
Post by: Brian Grimley on May 04, 2005, 04:32:20 PM
Derek, shows a French Spiral Hitching. Is this it?

As Dan and Lasse have said, there are a surprising number of different designs that are made from the simple half hitch with one, two or three strands. Anyway, it surprised me! :)

Let us know if this isn't the one you seek!

Title: Re: Frustrated
Post by: KnotNow! on May 04, 2005, 07:37:29 PM
Now that you have the link to the hitching here is a hint.  I use as many spools of cord as strands and work directly off the spool.  With a helper to pass the spools two people can pass an amazing number of hitches in a very sort time.  Another point is that if you run to the end of a spool (or ball, or bundle) it is pretty easy to bury the beginning of the new spool and cover the end of the old so you go on as if nothing happened.  Later on you will be hard pressed to find the transition.  I always put a few coats of finish on the work, when done.  Shellac, varnish, boat soup, paint, sodium silicate, diluted white glue... something.  That way the hitching will last many decades.  Good luck. ;D
Title: Re: Frustrated
Post by: PatDucey on May 05, 2005, 01:24:16 AM

To finish the ends of the hitching, typically there is a Turks Head knot wrapped around the railing to bind the hitching.  Are you interested in a template to tie a Turks Head?  I can e-mail you a template that you can print, tape to the spar, and then tie your Turks Head right on the railing.  If you are interested in something like this, let me know how big the railing is, and will size the template to match.  Of course, this means that I would love to see photos of the finished work.

Title: Re: Frustrated
Post by: Derek Scammon on May 05, 2005, 06:24:28 AM
Thanks to all of you!  French spiral hitching is exactly what I was talking about.  I think I'll definately pick myself up a copy of the marlinspike sailor! Thanks again!
Title: Re: Frustrated
Post by: yknoteh on May 10, 2005, 04:23:01 AM
Derek, I hope this gets through. It's my first post and I'm not too sure how all this works.
I use a similar covering for the hiking staffs I make. You can practice on a piece of broom handle. Start off with a Turk's Head knot using an extra long line.[15 ft.] Bury one end under and tighten the knot using small needle nosed pliers. Now take the end and work in a series of half hitches, always the same way, until you have enough left to work in another Turk's Head. Tighten the final knot and trim the end.  I've just finished a staff as a prize for our Scoutrees campaign and if I can figure out how to send a digital pic, I'll fwd it. Good luck.
Title: Re: Frustrated
Post by: KnotNow! on May 10, 2005, 07:13:15 AM
Hi YKNOTEH?  What a nice clear post!  You have figured out how it works!  Now that the thread is rolling along:  If you start with double the length of line and put your Turk's Head Knot in the middle of the line you can lead both ends out to the working side (toward the "ground end tip" of the staff).  This version of hitching was mentioned in earlier posts.. the fun of this way is that it grows right out from beneath the THK.  Then you can make hitches to the right with one end and hitches to the left with the other end.  This makes two helical spirials, one in each direction.  They meet every 180 degrees.  ABOK #3349 calls the single line version "Grapevine Service" so I choose to call this "Double Grapevine Service" but most folks (including the prior posters) call it double french hitching.  If you would like a nice closed ended Turk's Head Knot you might visit <> and look at the closed ended knots posted by Patrick Ducey, PAB Secretary.  A closed ended THK looks like a bicycle hand grip made of basket woven cord work.  I put them on tool handles, bicycles, motorcycles, needle cases... all sorts of stuff, including hiking staffs.  Have you looked at Patrick's pear shaped THK's.  I carve a rough wooden pear shape and insert it and epoxy it into a junk ski pole (remove the nasty plastic).  I hitch or coachwhip a hand grip.  Then I add a pear shaped THK to cover the pear and the junction with the hitching/whipping.  Pretty slick.  I've only recently joined this century so can't post pics.  Someday this year.
Title: Re: Frustrated
Post by: Dee Shaw on May 11, 2005, 02:23:47 AM
PABPRES. Be gentle!!
I have just printed off your last msg. I will read it over a few times, confer with Ashley [ABOK right?] and then get out the practice stick and some parachute cord and give it a try. Why do I have this feeling that this is some kind of initiation for newbies? Like sending someone to the QM for green oil for the starboard lamp or a left-handed monkey wrench?
I am strictly amateur when it comes to knotting but I have some favourites that I use regularly for staffs, lapel pins and other give-aways that people seem to appreciate. ABOK has been in the library for nearly 30 years and gets a lot of use. I can also do a passable job on instructing knot tying for Cubs & Scouts & I have produced my own brochure of instructions for the required knots with a few extras thrown in for a challenge. The THK [Turk's Head Knot right?] is probably my favourite for it's beauty, simplicity and versatility and messing about with knots is a great pastime.
Hamlyn's Knots, ornamental & useful led me to IGKT and this site so the learning process continues. PTYFNA. D
Title: Re: Frustrated
Post by: PatDucey on May 11, 2005, 04:25:52 AM

If we really wanted to send you off chasing a wild goose, we would have sent you to the mess decks for 50 ft. of chow line.  If we have confused you, please ask for clarification.  Many of us communicate in a jargon that can leave a lay person in the dust.

If you know how to tie a Turks Head, you are certainly not an ametuer.  If you need help with any of my Turks Head templates posted on the KHWW website, please ask, and I will try to help.  They were designed for people who already know knots, and might want to try something more challenging.  If you live near Seatttle, I will be at two events this summer where the IGKT-PAB will be putting on a presentation.  Stop by and say hi!

Title: Re: Frustrated
Post by: KnotNow! on May 11, 2005, 08:10:33 AM
Hi Dee Shaw,  My abject apologies.  I'd not intended to be rude or make trouble.  The post I referred to was indeed clear and concise, so I said so.  There was no sarcasim intended.  A complement taken as insult.. most sorry.   I never intend to leave anyone feeling overwhelmed or that I am in any way considering myself less than just another student.  If you feel that I am putting you off on a wild goose chase then I have failed in my  task.  My Bad.  This was why I quit writing for Knotting Matters.  There is something different between "Marblemount speak" and "world speak".  So again, I am so sorry to have given offense.  Thank you for coming on board.  Thank you for posting back to me for it is only by learning how I am seen by others that I can correct my bad habbits.  I was just so happy that other folks were making hitched rails.  No offense was intended.  Again, I am sorry that I seemed less than gentle.  By the way, time is too short to send anyone out for "50 feet of shore line" or a "roll over shackle wrench".  
Title: Re: Frustrated
Post by: Dee Shaw on May 11, 2005, 07:55:36 PM
PABPRES. NO OFFENCE TAKEN. I'm still smiling abt it all and will be for a while. I just thought that someone was
trying one on. Having been on both sides of that particular fence, many times in the past, I can hardly take offence if I think someone is trying it on me.
FOR DEREK,  send me a direct e-mail and I'll fwd a couple of pics of what I usually use for a covering.