International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Fancy and Decorative Knotwork => Topic started by: Frayed Knot Arts on November 22, 2007, 03:46:27 AM

Title: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Frayed Knot Arts on November 22, 2007, 03:46:27 AM
Since we now have a Fancywork sub-forum (THANK YOU, Moderatii!), I thought I'd start a post and let others chime in as they see fit as to where to get supplies for doing FANCY WORK knotting.  This would include small line, glues, varnishes and the like, or anything else useful that would appeal to we fimble-fungered fools. 

Please don't post actual pricing and please don't post if you have an interest in the concern.  Let's keep this as a neutral informational post, not an advertizer's jumble.

To start: Cyanoacrylate Glue in bulk.

As many of you know from my past drivels, I am a proponent of using cyanoacrylate glue for many purposes (*)in doing small fancywork, but getting some at a decent cost has been rather difficult. Every time I find what I think is a "good deal", the company goes out of business or the prices escalate and getting it in bulk from sources in the UK is economically unsound by the time I pay shipping, customs and packing charges.  Indeed, I run a  good chance that the dunderknopfen in US Customs will unilaterally decide that Ca is a WMD and never deliver it at all.

Finally I found a good US source for this stuff and thought I'd share...

Woodenwonders (http://woodenwonderstx.com/WWBlue/NewGlueWS.html) is a master distributor for EZ Bond CA glues, and you can really get some nice pricing on 16oz bottles of the stuff. They also have smaller bottles into which you can decant the glue for convenient working sizes, caps and "wicking tips" which are just a super idea, as well as 2oz bottles of the glue if you don't need a big bottle. (Edited 08-26-08)

I use this stuff (the THIN formula) to "tip" my lines for weaving turksheads, to prevent the end of a line from "fagging out" while being tucked or braided (especially in squareknotting) and for a dozen other little things. (**)

They also sell "De-bonder" (GET SOME! It's really helps to be able to get this stuff OFF a surface if you have an 'oopsie'!) as well as accelerator to speed up drying, although nine times out of ten you won't need it with the thin formula and cotton/linen lines.

Anyway, check out the website for more info or send an email to Mannie at the site.

Vince

(*) I will take a line I'm going to use for a turkshead and "tip" the end (about 1/2 inch or so) with CA, let it dry (a matter of a minute at most with cotton / linen / flax / hemp lines, then clip the line at a 45 degree angle giving me a hard end with a chisel point for weaving multi-strand turksheads, doing larger needlehitch, anything where you have to pass the line multiple times thru the body of the work, thus eliminating the need for those brass threading needles. Unlike them, it adds almost nothing to the weight of the line and will easily stay stiff for as long as the job takes. To prevent fagging, just a wee drop on the line's end and it'll stay secure through just about any contortion you may put it thru

(**) I also use CA in place of other preservatives for coating things like a tool handle or anything that will receive hard usage. The CA bonds with the ropework and makes the finished product pretty "bulletproof"; in fact, you'd better be pretty (censored) sure that the fancywork is exactly where you want it before coating, because once you do, it AIN'T moving again!

A lot of people like varnish. (I like the look) The way it coats the work and makes the surface smooth is very traditional, while CA penetrates the fabric of the line and does not give a 'smooth" surface finish. But the CA surface gives a far superior 'grip' to the handle, so it's really (as Daedalus said to Icarus)
a matter of a pinion as to which is better.  It also dries in a very brief time by comparison.

Anyhoo... for those who may be interested, there it is.

More to follow.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: turks head 54 on November 22, 2007, 07:46:22 AM
If I find a source for this stuff I'll let you know.

TH54
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: drjbrennan on November 22, 2007, 11:59:58 AM
I like the military paracord and I've been very pleased with the service I get from these folks.

http://www.supplycaptain.com/

Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: Lasse_C on December 27, 2007, 03:10:58 PM
If anyone can give me a tip on a supplier of 2 mm satin "rattail" cord, I would be sooooo grateful! They must be reliable and have reasonable prices, of course!  ;)

Lasse C
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: KnotMe on December 28, 2007, 06:56:11 PM
Since you asked (and because I did a recent survey of my suppliers), I've got a reasonable supply of 2mm nylon (about a week turn around if you want more spools than I have on-hand), an excellent supply of 2mm rayon (33 colours but it is imported from Japan so the quality is excellent with all strands dyed before construction, but the shipments are twice a month and the prices also imported from Japan). I also have located a supplier in China.  All colours including custom colours and custom varigation are available but quantities are measured in partial shipping containers and I have not yet mustered up the courage to tried importing directly from the manufacturer.  Here's the list of what I have on hand http://daoofsilk.com/catalog/cord/satin/
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: deckhandiana on December 31, 2007, 11:18:40 AM
I have a roll of dark brown French fishing line, about 1.5 mm bought in Brittany last year, which is invaluable.  I wish I'd bought more.

Any chandlery or fishing tackle supplier would be worth investigating.

Happy New Year to everyone.   :)

Diana.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: capt larry on January 03, 2008, 05:17:25 PM
I had good results for 2mm satin cord from The Satin Cord Store, seemed to have the best price on spools and large color selection.

Capt. Larry
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: cbrew6 on January 06, 2008, 06:45:01 PM
Lasse, i got my rattail from here    http://store.crafta.com/ribbons---bows-rat-tail.html (http://store.crafta.com/ribbons---bows-rat-tail.html)
not satin, but real nice stuff lots of colors an price not to bad. dont know about shipping to u
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: Lasse_C on January 18, 2008, 11:19:15 PM
I had good results for 2mm satin cord from The Satin Cord Store, seemed to have the best price on spools and large color selection.

Capt. Larry

Thanks!
I checked them out, and they do have a very good selection, and their price on the nylon rattail cord seems unbeatable! Since my younger son makes chainmail jewellery (yes, we are into crafts and arts in our family) and they also have anodized aluminium rings in nice colours we are planning an order!

Lasse C
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: oldpete on February 18, 2008, 04:15:12 PM
Hi. I have found a supplier of leather lace in the U.K.
They have stocks of various sizes, I think the 4mm goat leather lace (5 colours) is the best for braiding and interweave turks heads. I can't see this advertised on the web site but if you are interested try phoning Steve.....The company is BFnT.co.uk
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: Lasse_C on February 22, 2008, 06:54:53 PM
I had good results for 2mm satin cord from The Satin Cord Store, seemed to have the best price on spools and large color selection.

Capt. Larry

Thanks!
I checked them out, and they do have a very good selection, and their price on the nylon rattail cord seems unbeatable! Since my younger son makes chainmail jewellery (yes, we are into crafts and arts in our family) and they also have anodized aluminium rings in nice colours we are planning an order!

Lasse C

I have now recieved my order, and must say I am very pleased! Placed my (our) order on their webpage in the morning (local time) - on the evening the same day I had confirmation of the order, and on the next day a message that the stuf was in the mail. About 1? weeks later it arrived.

So: Quick and excellent service, very good quality (my son was overjoyed with the colours of the anodized alu rings he bought) and very good prices. Could not really ask for more. So, thanks again for the recommendation!

Lasse C
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: Frayed Knot Arts on August 27, 2008, 03:06:24 AM
Additional information:  (US)

Cotton line:  http://www.knotstuff.com  Marty Combs.   Excellent 18ga thru 120 ga cotton lines, some hemp lines and a lot of tools and BOOKS galore!

RAYON blind cord: http://www.rwrope.com  R&W Rope (Bob Dollar).   Mini-blind RAYON cord, many colours and sizes, reasonable pricing.  Also a traditional rigging shop and access to most of the things you'd expect there: Stockholm tars, fine manilas, even better man-made manila-like cordage, hemp twine, marline, palms, needles, blocks,, etc.

NOTE: I have been mis-identifying the RAYON cord as NYLON.  My apologies. 

Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on August 27, 2008, 07:39:30 AM
What great links! Thanks frayedknotarts.

I've been trying to read all I can from all of you to figure out which sizes of rope I need to get started. It helps a lot when I see pictures of completed projects that have the size description in the captions.

Why are there so many different measurements, i.e.; inches, mm, ply or ga? I know how to convert inches to metric, but I have no idea about "ply" or "ga".  Does #18 = 18ga and how does that fit in with inches or metric?

Any recommendations for a beginner? I can't afford to buy all the sizes. Sorry, I know this is probably elementary to you guys.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: Frayed Knot Arts on August 28, 2008, 03:54:40 AM
NOTE   THIS POST HAS CORRECTED ERRORS IN BOLD (10-30-08)

Anything but elementary, and complicated by the different measuring sizes used over time, from "gauge" to "Thread" to Inches and metric.

I would get a roll of 1.4mm white braided polyester mini-blind cord to start off with... this is sufficiently small to produce nice work and yet large enough to learn on without too much trouble.  I am not fond of "paracord" (about 2.4mm) for anything as it is too large and soft, IMHO.

Generally (and I am absolutely open to correction on this), very fine knot work requires a 8 ga. hard cotton line (codline) which is about 3/32" in diameter.  This may sound small, but the size, combined with the hard lay of the line will produce superior square-knot and fine braiding work.   This is about .9 mm in diameter.  This would produce (for example) about a 32-line square-knot belt (8 knots wide) at 1-1/2" across. 

Marty's smallest really hard-laid line is about a real 18ga (he calls it #15) and is about 3/16" dia.  This will produce about a 20-line (5 knot) belt at 1-1/2".

R&W has line from .8mm thru 3.0mm in braided POLYESTER MINI-BLIND CORD as well as hemp lines in about 1.8mm.

Finding a really good line is probably the toughest thing about doing knotwork and it's why I started this thread.

The "creme da la creme" of knotting line was the "Dreadnaught" cord sold by PC Herwig from appx. 1927 thru 1970 or so when the company went out of business.  It was an 8 ga. hard cotton cord, sized (starched) and polished and came in six colours from white thru a truly awful yellow, but it was by far the absolute best thing for doing half-hitch belts, fine squareknot work and especially for making up fine braids for picture frames.  (Some of the "old salts" from the USN will remember this as "Belfast Cord" sold (jobbed off) by GEMSCO at Naval Exchanges the world over.  It was Herwig's Dreadnaught cord in disguise!)  I've searched for five years now for a manufacturer who could replicate this cordage and have come up empty.

Marty's cotton lines are superb, and R&W's POLYESTERS are just great... both have their place and both produce completely different results.

I heartily recommend a reading (or purchase!) of Raoul Graumont and John Hensel's "Encyclopedia of Knots and Fancy Ropework" (Cornell Maritime 1944) if for nothing else than their section and photos of square-knot work, most of the photos for which were originally taken for use in Herwig's "Square-Knotting Books", #1, #2 and #3.   If you have the Encyclopedia, there no need of the Herwig pamphlets as it is all contained in the Encyclopedia.  (incidentally,  get a post-1952 edition of this if possible... the earlier ones have sections of the index missing!)

Again, I grow long-winded.

Vince
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on August 28, 2008, 03:03:52 PM
Thanks so much for the great explanation and recommendations, Vince, and as for "growing long-winded", you have my permission to blow like a hurricane!!! lol That's just what I needed. I wish we lived closer, I'd love buy you a beer and just have a good ole' rope tying chat. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: Frayed Knot Arts on August 29, 2008, 03:29:22 AM
Thanks so much for the great explanation and recommendations, Vince, and as for "growing long-winded", you have my permission to blow like a hurricane!!! lol That's just what I needed. I wish we lived closer, I'd love buy you a beer and just have a good ole' rope tying chat. Thanks again.

So happens you live not too far away from Don Burrhus of "The Turks Head Cook Book" fame.   Look  it up on line and get his email. He lives in Orange City.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on August 29, 2008, 04:25:59 AM
Thanks for the heads up, Vince.
I had bookmarked his page the other day not even realizing he's less than an hour from my house. I've emailed him and hopefully he'll write back soon. 8)
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: Frayed Knot Arts on August 30, 2008, 02:13:31 AM
CORRECTED POST  24-03-09                                                            CORRECTED POST  24-03-09                                                            CORRECTED POST  24-03-09                                                            CORRECTED POST  24-03-09                                                            CORRECTED POST  24-03-09         



TREVOR JUST EMAILED ME THAT HE IS NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION OF THIS PRODUCT.   SORRY!


More line recommendations:

For fine work you will want to try the hard laid (appx #9 size) cotton line produced by Trevor Tutt of Texas.  EMAIL him for pricing as he has not yet updated his site and the pricing there is a little out of date.

Trevor produces 100' hanks of line by hand and the consistancy and finish is excellent.  It is a bit "pricey" but you get what you pay for, no question. For fine, tight work, this stuff cannot be beat.  He will supply it sized (stiffened) or un-sized, and in bleached cotton (a very lite ecru approaching eggshell white) or natural (more of a middle-cream or lite tan) colour.  Unsized is best if you intend to dye it.

His site is www.oldbelfast.net


...................................................

Now, I'd mentioned Don Burrhus in a previous post.  His site, www.knottool.com sells a contraption that you use to make up eccentric turksheads quickly and easily. It works well but isn't my cuppa tea, precisely.

What IS my cuppa tea are the threading needles he sells, the books he carries and the fact that if you need a custom tool for knotting work, talk to Don:  he's a total wizard at making things and will have you fixed up in jig time.  (Talk to him about Delrin spikes and such for knotting on a long air trip!)  Click on CUSTOM WORK in his navigational bars.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on August 30, 2008, 03:44:19 AM
Thanks, Vince. I've been emailing back and forth w/Don (fyi he spoke highly of you!). He's given me a few links already and they even have a "local knot tyers gathering?  (very informal, just getting together and tying knots?)" How cool is that??? 8)

These are the links he recommended to me.
You might want to check out www.khww.net as there are some great knotters there.
Also, you will need to join the following to stay informed:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/knottyers/
and
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marlinspikeknotworks/
Both are excellent.  Lost of great people, many of them are well known knot tyers.
-Don Burrhus


If there was ever a need for a "newbie" sticky, I think this thread should be at the top of that list. I hope it doesn't stop but I've got to tell you, I feel like you did when you read the "Bell Ringing Knot?" thread when you said, "I now have more stuff to clutter what's left of my mind!" There is so, so much material here. I feel overwhelmed but at the same time excited. I just need to make up my mind and start tying something. lol

I really want to do a knot board. Do you have any recommendations for mats? And which size of line and do cotton or nylon mats look better? How are they attached to the board? I was going to try spray on glue (I ruined a white nylon double star knot with super glue, it turned hard as a rock and brown) but then I thought of using a dark green or blue felt backing, so would I have to use tiny nails and try to hide them in the strands? Sorry, guess I'm getting away from the purpose of the thread which you have been great with your outstanding recommendations so far.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on September 15, 2008, 05:16:59 AM
Why are there so many different measurements, i.e.; inches, mm, ply or ga? I know how to convert inches to metric, but I have no idea about "ply" or "ga".  Does #18 = 18ga and how does that fit in with inches or metric?

Sorry, I know this is probably elementary to you guys.
The link below has a lot of info on cord sizes.
http://www.khww.net/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=791&pid=7612#post_7612 (http://www.khww.net/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=791&pid=7612#post_7612)
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: mysticknotwork on September 18, 2008, 12:36:21 AM
If anyone can give me a tip on a supplier of 2 mm satin "rattail" cord, I would be sooooo grateful! They must be reliable and have reasonable prices, of course!  ;)

Lasse C

I have used Fabric Barn as my source for rattail.  Try this site.  http://fabricbarn.com/catalog/?_s=5 . They used to have a $100 minimum and the put ups are 200yard...This is a fabric store wholesaler that I did business with for 5 years in that trade.

Matt Beaudoin
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: squarerigger on September 18, 2008, 05:16:14 AM
Matt,

I notice that your handle is Mysticknotwork and that your name matches that of one of the leading knot-tyers of late, Alton C. Beaudoin - are you related?  Good to see your name up here, related or not.  Thanks for the tip on rattail supplies! ;D

SR
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: oldpete on September 18, 2008, 12:03:15 PM
If interested i buy 2mm chinese silk cords in 10mtr lengths from 'changbaolou' on ebay. nice stuff and very cheap.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: mysticknotwork on September 18, 2008, 11:23:10 PM
Matt,

I notice that your handle is Mysticknotwork and that your name matches that of one of the leading knot-tyers of late, Alton C. Beaudoin - are you related?  Good to see your name up here, related or not.  Thanks for the tip on rattail supplies! ;D

SR

Alton was my grandfather. 

Both of his sons and all of his grandchildren have some maritime/rope working knowledge.  My sister is a graphic designer for a large boat supply retailer, my brother does some weaving and TH''s, by cousins both know how to tie TH and can hold their own with a lot of other knots.  My dad is an expert in splicing and knows as many knots as I do.  My uncle really took it to the next level by working VERY small.  He makes wedding bands, crownknot earrings, and cerrick bend pendants.  Now, the cool part is that he uses them as positives to do gold and silver castings.  The metal work that results is so detailed that you can still see the stray strands in the original cordage.

Personally, I burn through about 500# of cotton per year and about a mile of manila rope.. but I don't get to do much of the really cool stuff like Vince does :)


Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: Frayed Knot Arts on September 19, 2008, 03:59:28 AM
Yep.  We got royalty aboard!   When I met Matt at the Wooden Bot Show, he was wearing a half-hitch belt that just made me drool in envy.

Welcome aboard!
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on September 21, 2008, 05:31:15 AM
Matt, many thanks for the tip on the glue from the other thread.
I was just looking thru the different links and was wondering if your Uncle Jim has a web site for his jewelry? I'd love to see his TH webbing bands as well as the rest of his work.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: mysticknotwork on September 21, 2008, 09:05:52 PM
Matt, many thanks for the tip on the glue from the other thread.
I was just looking thru the different links and was wondering if your Uncle Jim has a web site for his jewelry? I'd love to see his TH webbing bands as well as the rest of his work.


He and I were just talking about that yesterday at a family picnic.  Hopefully, as I get a clue on building my own, we can build on his as well.  His work is unbelievable reproduction in sillver and gold and deserves the drools it gets, and hopefully it develops a market niche.  We just haven't made the right connections for him yet.  I am excited though, because he's going to show me his tricks this winter... :)

So, short answer, no he doesn't, but hopefully soon.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on September 21, 2008, 10:03:25 PM
Hi Matt,

Just tried to send you a PM and I think it got lost in hyperspace????

I have a cousin that lives in St. Thomas, US Virgin Islands that owns 2 jewelry stores there and many more all over the world. Once you and your Uncle get ready, if you would like, I would be happy to see if there is any way I could get you guys in contact with each other. No promises, but it may help.

If you ever get a chance to take a pic, I'd love to see them.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on October 08, 2008, 03:00:58 AM
I heartily recommend a reading (or purchase!) of Raoul Graumont and John Hensel's "Encyclopedia of Knots and Fancy Ropework" (Cornell Maritime 1944) if for nothing else than their section and photos of square-knot work, most of the photos for which were originally taken for use in Herwig's "Square-Knotting Books", #1, #2 and #3.   If you have the Encyclopedia, there no need of the Herwig pamphlets as it is all contained in the Encyclopedia.  (incidentally,  get a post-1952 edition of this if possible... the earlier ones have sections of the index missing!)

Vince
WhooHoo! I just won a $25 Barns and Noble gift certificate at a raffle from work and will soon be the proud owner of the "Encyclopedia of Knots and Fancy Ropework". $21.89 including shipping and it was published in '65 if I remember correctly. Thanks for the hint to go after '52, Vince.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: Frayed Knot Arts on October 09, 2008, 02:50:27 AM
When you get it, first check the "index" for missing pages!   Quite a few of the post '52 editions STILL have this problem.

Someone a while back put out a PDF version of ABOK.... wish someone would do it with this one as well!

Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on October 09, 2008, 03:14:31 AM
Thanks, I'll check it. I am really looking forward to it arriving. How many pages are in the index? Maybe someone could scan the missing pages. If mine is complete I could try, I'm no whiz around the pc but I can scan pages if I knew which ones are missing.
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on October 25, 2008, 04:46:45 AM
Index is complete in the '65 edition! WhooHoo! This is one awesome collection!!!
Vince, thanks again so much for the heads up!

Any chance of someone making this thread a sticky (second request for a sticky). I still come back and reread it a lot and I'm sure any new member would appreciate it as well! Great job Vince and all the others who contributed! 8)
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: Lasse_C on October 30, 2008, 09:06:57 AM
Any chance of someone making this thread a sticky (second request for a sticky). I still come back and reread it a lot and I'm sure any new member would appreciate it as well!
I vote in favor of that suggestion!
Finding good, reliable suppliers of high-quality materials is an important issue for many of us - especially, I might add, for those of us who (like me) do not live in a big city.

Lasse C
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: Shamr0ck on December 19, 2008, 12:27:02 PM
Hello all ~

I, too, am a newbie and have found "Cross Lace Cord" by Jimalax to be a reasonable cord to use.  It comes in a wide variety of colors.  Has stood up well for the key fobs and THs I've made, retains its color over time and is reasonably priced.  Service was fast and accurate, they were  more than happy to send along samples of the three sizes carried and if you order is above $100US, then shipping is free.

Http://www.jimalax.com

I got tired of trying to locate reasonably priced (and best size) accessory cord at my local climbing/outdoor store, paracord had too much slop and play in it for what I was working on and when you purchase 100 yd spools, it takes a while to run out (which is very frustrating when it happens at 2am)

I measured the diameter of the cord for Don B this past summer and will dig out that post tonight and post here.

The only "issue" i'd note with my batch of the JimaLax cord is that there are minor differences in OD depending on color (Black and White are just a tad larger), the yellow color will come off on your hands as you work, but no issue staining clothing, and some colors are a bit "stiffer" than the others.

Hope this helps ~
Title: Re: Fancywork suplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on February 05, 2009, 06:28:43 AM
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a55/minikatanarox/bump.gif)

Can anyone make this a sticky please. I keep coming back to it for reference for myself as well as when new knot tiers are always asking this question I give them this link. It was almost down to the bottom of the page where it would go to the next page, making it even harder to find.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Frayed Knot Arts on March 05, 2009, 04:23:23 AM
Hey, Modrators!  THANK YOU for the "sticky"!
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on March 06, 2009, 05:57:07 AM
Hey, Modrators!  THANK YOU for the "sticky"!
Hey, Vince!  THANK YOU for the "thread"!
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: aknotter on April 18, 2009, 01:12:47 AM
http://cordsandropes.com/index.html
One of the PAB members had some of this at our last meeting. It looks to be some pretty nice stuff. I think I am going to ask for samples of their cords. I'll post here if they will accomodate me.
They are located in the UK, so shipping costs might be an issue for those of us on this side of the pond? I did not search this topic to see if that site has already been mentioned, so if it has, just chalk it up to a "senior" moment.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Knotical on June 09, 2009, 08:41:56 AM
Hello all,

I've been using "Wellington Medium Load Braided Synthetic Venetian Blind Cord" from the Tru-Value Hardware store for a little while and I really like it.  It's sold in hanks and according to the package it's 9/64" x 48' (3.6mm x 14.63m).  I paid $3.79 per hank the last time (about 7.9? per foot).  It's a smooth braid (not like diamond braid) and fairly stiff so it holds a shape well. 

Here's an example:

(http://khww.net/images/photoalbum/album_95/640_0608.jpg)

In the tiniest print I've seen in quite a while I see that it is a product of the Lehigh Group [http://www.lehighgroup.com] but don't bother going there - it's an awful website.  This product is not listed there and what you can find there, well, you can't really tell exactly what you find there.

Does anyone have a better source for this cord than my local Tru-Value Hardware store?  I would prefer to buy a spool of this stuff because the hanks are so tightly wrapped that they cause disfigurements in the cord.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Son of Liberty on July 04, 2009, 05:58:25 PM
I use paracord a lot, and http://www.lapolicegear.com/trpa100fole.html has good stuff at low prices.  They don't have much of a selection, but if you want military colors, they're good to go.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Knotical on July 16, 2009, 03:38:29 PM
I use paracord a lot, and http://www.lapolicegear.com/trpa100fole.html has good stuff at low prices.  They don't have much of a selection, but if you want military colors, they're good to go.

$4.99 per 100' is a good (closeout) price and the shipping is not unreasonable but with only 6 (military) colors to choose from it's probably not a one stop shop for many folks.  They also have 300' for $14.99 in 5 colors (no white) and 1000' for $38.99-41.99 in 5 colors (again, no white).

I have been doing a lot of searching myself lately and I just found Vermont's Barre Army Navy website (http://www.vtarmynavy.com/parachute_cord.htm) (have not ordered from them yet). Looks like both good prices ($6.50/100') and good selection (34 colors) of 450 and 550 cord.  They have lengths in 50', 100', 250', 500', 1000', 1200' although the 550 has fewer available colors - especially in longer lengths.  They also have a Parachute Cord Multi Pack -100' (http://www.vtarmynavy.com/parachute-cord-multi-pack--100.htm) which is 100' of all 34 colors for $167.95.  That works out to about $4.94/100' (before shipping).

If anyone knows a better source, please let me know.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: aknotter on July 16, 2009, 04:22:32 PM
ubraidit.com has a lot of paracord colors, including fluorescent. One note about using paracord. . . it should be "pre-shrunk" before using it in fancy work. I once made a turk's head hat band for a friend out of paracord and within 3 months, it crushed his hat! Now I cut lengths, put them in a nylon mesh bag and run them through a wash and dry with a load of laundry.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Knotical on July 16, 2009, 06:15:24 PM
ubraidit.com has a lot of paracord colors, including fluorescent. One note about using paracord. . . it should be "pre-shrunk" before using it in fancy work. I once made a turk's head hat band for a friend out of paracord and within 3 months, it crushed his hat! Now I cut lengths, put them in a nylon mesh bag and run them through a wash and dry with a load of laundry.

 :o  :o  :o
I've never heard that before.  Why would nylon shrink if not pre-washed?
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: aknotter on July 19, 2009, 05:02:23 PM
Read further on Ubraidit's page. It states that if the paracord has been "gutted", shrinkage is not a problem. So it must be the core threads that shrink. And that would lead one to assume they are not nylon.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Knotical on July 19, 2009, 10:57:33 PM
Read further on Ubraidit's page. It states that if the paracord has been "gutted", shrinkage is not a problem. So it must be the core threads that shrink. And that would lead one to assume they are not nylon.

Agreed.  I'm thinking Rayon or some other semi-synthetic.  It feels like a synthetic fiber but if it shrinks then it definitely ain't nylon.  BTW, I wet down something with gutted paracord and there was no change at all.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: redburn on July 20, 2009, 08:46:43 PM
Hi all, as I wrote in another post, I am the newbie from Naples, Italy interested in fancy work.

It is one month that I am viewing and reviewing the tutorials in the website of frayedknotarts: great site and great works too. My best compliments, frayedknotarts.

I would have a question about the cord needed for a lanyard.
I already experimented that common cord unravels in a moment, while using syntethic cord, like the one used in the rigging of small sailing boats the knots, leads to slip.
I also read that it should be used Belfast cord, if only anyone were already making it.

In this 3d I read about Marty Combs stuff: provided that shipping and handling price were not too high, would You please suggest what is (are?) the right type to buy for a lanyard?
Or do You have any other suggestion?

Did't even tried to find anything in Italy ...

Thanks a lot for whatever info.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: skyout on July 20, 2009, 09:31:37 PM
I'm no expert as I'm doing a lot of learning myself but I think lanyards are made of a lot of different kinds of cord. The cotton ones like Vince uses would be any Navy personel's dream come true. Here's a link to one made with what looks like RAYON blind cord: http://www.rwrope.com  R&W Rope (Bob Dollar). Bud did say it's 1mm in size.

http://khww.net/articles.php?article_id=71 (http://khww.net/articles.php?article_id=71)

Check out the other tutorials on KHWW for other braids.

(http://khww.net/images/articles/Braid17str_dbl07.jpg)

If you want to try one in colors, Post# 37 on a previous page of this thread has a link to KJK Cords in the UK which, although I havn't tried it, I have heard several members say it's good for tying decorative knots. At least they're on your side of the pond. LOL
http://www.cordsandropes.com/index.html (http://www.cordsandropes.com/index.html)
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: capt larry on July 21, 2009, 01:48:59 PM
Redburn,

Many people use paracord for lanyards.  Check out Stormdrane's blog, he has many items including lanyards made of paracord.    http://stormdrane.blogspot.com/ (http://stormdrane.blogspot.com/)  One source of this is Supply Captain www.supply captain.com (http://www.supply captain.com).  They have several colors.  Mentioned recently, I believe at KHWW was Barre Army Navy as a source.

I am a fan of Marty Combs cotton cords.  I expect you would want his #45 or #21.

Also, for nylon cord, there are fans of cross lace cord used fro stringing Lacrosse sticks - an American sport originated from a Native American game.  Try www.jimalax.com (http://www.jimalax.com)

Happy knotting,

CL
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: redburn on July 21, 2009, 05:55:55 PM
Thanks a lot for the hints, Capt Larry.
I just sent an email to Martin, awating his reply.
In the mean time just going to make exercises on crown- and wall-ing.
Thanks again.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: SlipJig on August 18, 2009, 05:12:01 AM
OK folks, another question that, unless I have missed it, doesn't seem to be covered in the links already provided.

Anybody know any suppliers of VB cord (or diamond braid utility cord, if you will) in terylene or nylon (not polyprop) in a good colour range?

Point of question: I can easily buy it locally in bulk in black, white, red, yellow, green and blue, but it's sold here as light lashing for boaties and as long as each colour is distinguishable from each other colour, no one cares about the actual shade. The suppliers keep one shade only of each and there's no match at all between one reel and the next.

I'm particularly interest in blue shades. The blue here is almost bright turquoise and I'd love to be able to get a light shade of navy for red, white and blue combinations, and a dull mid-blue.  (Actually, the shade of blue in the IGKT cloth badge would be perfect!)

Olive and dark greens would be good too, come to think of it. I can get olive drab hootchie cord here, but being able to get darker greens in up to 3 mm would be great.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Knotical on August 18, 2009, 05:58:35 AM
Slip Jig, sounds like you're looking for jimalax cross lace cord (http://www.jimalax.com/) or http://www.gpjrope.com/blind.htm (http://www.gpjrope.com/blind.htm)
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: SlipJig on August 18, 2009, 08:05:59 AM
Thanks, Knotical.

I've looked at Jimalax before but I can't get a good enough look at the stuff to see whether it is exactly what I need. If it's soft and floppy without a core, as I suspect netting cord might be, it won't work up in the same way as VB cord. Any words of wisdom from those who use it?

The gpjrope site looks great for colour range, but it doesn't tell me what the blind cord is made of. My stuff needs to be able to take sun exposure, so polyprop is no good and unfortunately the wider colour ranges often seem to be polyprop. I'm sure if I write to them and ask, they will tell me, though. I hadn't seen that site before, so thanks! Blue Ridge is about the colour I'm after.

I'll report back with any further info.

EDIT: I just notice they sell it in 3,000 ft spools.  :o Might be a little bit much for little ole me!!!
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: capt larry on August 18, 2009, 02:21:35 PM
Slipjig,

The cross lace cord for lacrosse sticks is not soft, it compares to the venetian blind cord but is of larger diameter than the blind cord I have.  It also comes in the bolder colors you are looking for rather than the earthy muted tones of the blind cord.  It comes in spools of 300'.  As to construction, it is a braid cover - I believe polyester but it may be nylon.  The core is 5 strands of nylon or polyester.  In addition to Jimalax noted above, another source is www.comlax.com  (http://www.comlax.com), which seems to be less expensive.  The last spools I got from them are labled "jimalax cord", so it is apparently the same stuff.  One thing I've seen at KHWW is that ComLax does not have a bright green that Jimalax does.


For more info check http://www.khww.net/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=661&pid=5966#post_5966 (http://www.khww.net/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=661&pid=5966#post_5966) where there is a discussion of these cords and some pics of items done with it.

Cl
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Knotical on August 19, 2009, 06:29:40 PM
Slip Jig, I'm always tripped up by jargon terms like "Venetian Blind Cord" because they so often get applied to a variety of things.  I've bought (3.6mm) "Braided Synthetic Venetian Blind Cord" from TrueValue store in 48 ft. hanks.  It is a firm cord with a core and I really like how it feels and works.  The last time I bought it, it was 7.9? per foot.  Strangely, buying it by the foot from a spool at TrueValue is much more expensive.

Is what I've just described the same cord you are using?  Because the diamond braid cord I have found and used is very different than the VB cord I got from TrueValue.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: mysticknotwork on October 18, 2009, 03:05:22 PM
Guys, I just got a Request for Proposal on 2,000 monkey fists done in yellow/blue diamond braid nylon.  I was wondering if you guys have good sourcing on what looks like 3.5 mm(?).  Ideally dyed before it is braided for colorfastness...

Thanks in advance!
Matt
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: SS369 on October 18, 2009, 04:03:23 PM
Matt, I would personally contact Mr. Dollar at R&W Rope Warehouse in New Bedford to give him the opportunity to quote you something.

Scott
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: roundturn on May 20, 2010, 12:22:32 AM
I'm working with a mill to make some good 5/32 and 3/16 hard lay 3
strand cotton.
We have the recipie for the cord worked out and it's a really good
looking cord.
But the mill only has the ability to spool it on either 4500 ft or
2250 ft spools which is a pretty good size spool.
I was wondering if knot tyers that are interested in this size cord
could let me know if they would be interested in spools of this size
because you would have to purchase a lot of cord at one time but the
other side of the coin is that due to purchasing in large amounts you
would get a better price.  Let me know if any of you are interested
and I'll see what I can do to get some of this out on the market.

Marty
roundt...@hotmail.com
www.knotstuff.com


Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Sweeney on May 20, 2010, 11:19:31 AM
I would be interested (in 3/16") but the carriage cost to the UK may be prohibitive unless a number of UK knotters are interested and we can to some arrangement for distribution over here of several spools. Whatever it cost there would be 17.5% VAT on top of the price of the cord + delivery.

Barry
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: PatDucey on May 20, 2010, 07:48:51 PM
I would be interested in a spool of 3/16".  What is the price, and weight of a spool?  Also size of a spool, my rope chest is full (overflowing).  If I brought home more line, my wife might make me seek counseling.  (If she does ask me to get counseling, I'll ask you guys - 'Do I have too much rope?').

Pat Ducey
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Sweeney on May 21, 2010, 09:24:22 AM
We can never have too much rope but unfortunately wives tend to view anything beyond 3 metres of string as excessive "you won't live long enough to use all of that" I can hear (though the same logic never seems to apply to handbags and shoes for some reason). Let us know if you find a good counselor!

Barry
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: aknotter on May 21, 2010, 05:10:08 PM
Yes, Pat, YOU HAVE TOO MUCH ROPE! Just send it to me and your wife will stop yelling at you. (Glad to help?)
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: PatDucey on May 21, 2010, 08:09:41 PM
Thanks Jimmy, I wiil take you counseling under advisement.  My wife hasen't made an ultimatem yet, I will let you know when I will need to unload some line.  In the meantime, I think I can sneak a spool of hard twist in under the radar.  I'll tell her it's the line I bought to hold her tomatoes up.  We got those topsy turvey tomatoes planters this year, I hope she doesn't notice that she won't need to tie the plants to the cages anymore.

Pat
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Frayed Knot Arts on May 24, 2010, 01:17:26 AM
I'm working with a mill to make some good 5/32 and 3/16 hard lay 3
strand cotton.
We have the recipie for the cord worked out and it's a really good
looking cord.
But the mill only has the ability to spool it on either 4500 ft or
2250 ft spools which is a pretty good size spool.
I was wondering if knot tyers that are interested in this size cord
could let me know if they would be interested in spools of this size
because you would have to purchase a lot of cord at one time but the
other side of the coin is that due to purchasing in large amounts you
would get a better price.  Let me know if any of you are interested
and I'll see what I can do to get some of this out on the market.

Marty
roundt...@hotmail.com
www.knotstuff.com




Marty: email with a cost per foot (or meter)... how soon can I get a sample and can they make it in white and black or just in natural?
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: CreditonJules on July 04, 2010, 06:47:15 PM
Hi Guys!

Can anyone recommend me suppliers of paracord in the UK?

I'm currently using two very helpful and friendly suppliers but sometimes they are both out of the colours I need so thought it would be useful if I could have some others to "fall back" on.

Are there any other knotters here from the UK?

I just love this new hobby of mine!

Please contact me here or at info@beknotafrayed.co.uk

Many thanks!

Julie (CreditonJules)
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: aknotter on July 05, 2010, 06:42:30 PM
Hi Julie - see my post in "chit-chat" for u-braid-it[.]com. The supplier is in the US, and shipping might cost too much, but they do have a large variety of colors.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: CreditonJules on July 06, 2010, 06:42:00 PM
Thanks!  Will do!!
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: mysticknotwork on September 04, 2010, 06:08:56 AM
if its not too late, shoot me the pricing for the cord.  I just brought in 1600 pounds of #48, #60, and #108 for my winter projects, but if the price is right, I could always use more cord.  Just don't tell my wife.

(I ran out of my last 600 pound batch in less than 6 months.. lesson learned)
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: JD on September 04, 2010, 06:33:29 AM

Can anyone recommend me suppliers of paracord in the UK?

I'm currently using two very helpful and friendly suppliers but sometimes they are both out of the colours I need so thought it would be useful if I could have some others to "fall back" on.


When I need a specific colour of paracord, I always take a look at eBay. There are loads of people there selling all the colours including reflective and glow in the dark paracord.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: DEE on September 04, 2010, 11:30:00 AM
My daughter just brought me over $100.00 [USD] worth of para cord from Vermont Army Navy   www.vtarmynavy.com  and I am more than pleased with what I got. They could not match all the colours I requested but I like the substitutes. They also threw in some ends for free. I'll be going through the states on my next run to Ontario just so I can see for myself......
Closer to home Mercer's Marine in Clarenville, NL, Canada      www.mercersmarine.com     is just a short two hour drive away and they have some nice commercial fishing lines available.
I also recycle old lines from beachcombing and probably have enough to last me until........
PTYFNA....D
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: BronzeStar on August 02, 2011, 06:02:46 PM
For 550 cord I've been hardpressed to find a better source than http://www.theparacordstore.com/ they have a wide variety of colors in both corless and cored as well as 550 and 650. They also have a decent selection of spool sizes from 50' and 100' hanks to 1200' spools. So far the colors seem to stay consistant and they tend to ship very quickly.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Yog Sothoth on October 07, 2011, 12:34:16 AM
Ok, I feel very silly asking this, but I'm just starting to tie fancywork and want to know where to get the basic tools I'll be needing.  My web searches keep sending me to chandlers, and I need things like prickers and such.  Also, what do you all consider to be the essential tools necessary for beginners?  I'm coming to knotwork from tying obi for kimono, so I'm used to large flaps of fabric and cords and sashes being all over the place, and am very excited to sit and contemplate a contained set of strands. I'll probably be doing a lot of Chinese and Japanese knots with the rattail cords, if that helps.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: SS369 on October 07, 2011, 03:35:21 AM
Hello Yog Sothoth and welcome.
Another thread, a revised one on this topic is here >> http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3623.msg20681#msg20681 (http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3623.msg20681#msg20681)

Some very useful links and info.
Hope this helps and if you have specific questions, ask away and I am sure someone will give aid.

SS
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Wed on October 07, 2011, 06:56:55 AM
It has been discussed here as well: http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2970.0

Basic point being, don't ruin yourself before you identified what you really need. A small screwdriver will get you pretty far. Build you tool box as you tie.
Title: Re: Fancywork supplies: recommendations?
Post by: Sweeney on October 07, 2011, 09:47:00 AM
One of my more useful tools is a small pointed rod with a plastic handle - think of a small screwdriver with a point instead of a blade. That came with a small set of screwdrivers out of a Christmas cracker! I have a much larger marlinespike made from the bar used with box spanners sharpened with a file and with 2 rubber bungs of the type used with a demi-john for fermenting home made wine acting as a handle (they have a hole in the centre for a fermenting lock which just fits nicely). Before paying out cash for tools have a look around to see what will do the job (it may not be pretty but if it works....).

Barry