International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Chit Chat => Topic started by: Phil_The_Rope on October 30, 2007, 11:05:17 PM

Title: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on October 30, 2007, 11:05:17 PM
Hello Friends!

At long last I've got around to constructing a "knotty" web site - www.gr8-knots.com

I will endeavour to produce streaming video for the site, so I'd welcome your opinions. It's a tricky dilema in that quality has to be compromised for file/video size. The first video has been posted on the"Videos" page, so any feedback would be most welcome before I produce more -

http://www.gr8-knots.com/videos.htm

Thanks!

Phil The Rope






Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on October 31, 2007, 01:17:17 PM
Great site Phil, I can now do the MWK.

When can we have the rest?

Derek
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on October 31, 2007, 02:41:59 PM
I think you're teasing, Derek! I'll bet you've been tying them with your eyes closed for years.

Seriously, I wasn't sure if the resolution was good enough, or indeed whether the instructions were clear enough. I was waiting for a little feedback before I moved on to the next knot (diamond knot).

My intention is to try to persuade colleges to try a "Get Knotted" course, where I can teach some simple decorative stuff. I would produce a DVD with instructions on too, so that when people finish the course they'll have a reminder of how to do things (new skills are easily lost, especially if those skills aren't used again soon after learning them). The resolution on DVD would be much better than the web video.

Of course, it would give me an opportunity to promote the IGKT too. I probably need to speak to Des Pawson about the right sort of cord too - don't want people getting blisters after only a couple of hours!

Thanks for the feedback.

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: roo on October 31, 2007, 03:16:25 PM
Hello Friends!

At long last I've got around to constructing a "knotty" web site - www.gr8-knots.com

I will endeavour to produce streaming video for the site, so I'd welcome your opinions. It's a tricky dilema in that quality has to be compromised for file/video size. The first video has been posted on the"Videos" page, so any feedback would be most welcome before I produce more -

http://www.gr8-knots.com/videos.htm

Thanks!

Phil The Rope

Aside from the problem of Flash, I had to wait several minutes to get to a finger pointing at knots.   I would not return to such a page.
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on October 31, 2007, 03:39:14 PM
Hi Roo - thanks for the feedback.

I agree - if something doesn't load quickly, then people will quite rightly give up.

Hmm ... I wonder why it took so long? Do you have a fast connection? The reason I ask is that I used the same process for producing the video on this site as I do for my main work site (www.gr8-productions.co.uk), and the only time this has happened before is with people who have a 56K Modem connection, or when servers were "playing up". This is not generally an issue on my main site as my customers tend to be corporate.

Flash - yes, I deliberated for some time with my main site as to whether to use Quick Time, Windows Media, Real Player or Flash. The concensus I got from my test audiences was to use Flash, as there seemed to be fewer issues with versions. I may consider reproducing the video in different formats and give viewers a choice, but chances are if the first choice doesn't work well they're unlikely to try another option.

I'll watch out for any others who report the same issue - thanks.

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: roo on October 31, 2007, 04:28:52 PM
Hi Roo - thanks for the feedback.

I agree - if something doesn't load quickly, then people will quite rightly give up.

Hmm ... I wonder why it took so long? Do you have a fast connection?

I don't have a fast connection, but it is fast enough for 99% of the websites I visit.  I have a  free dial-up connection.
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: KnotMe on October 31, 2007, 04:39:52 PM
given a choice i vote quicktime.
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on October 31, 2007, 06:35:16 PM
Hi Folks!

The question of loading time for the first video on my site ...

The video (flash)  file is actually a fraction under 12MB, which is quite big even for streaming video. Without a fast (i.e. broadband) connection, people WILL struggle to watch it. Although I could reduce the file size, the resolution would suffer and make the video impractical, so I'm reluctant to do that.

I accept that even slow(er) connections will cope with the vast majority of web sites, but streaming video does demand rather more than most other web applications.

I'm particularly grateful to Roo for highlighting the issue, so I think I'll put a warning on the "Video" page before visitors actually click on the link(s) to this or any future videos.

Endeavour as I might to actually make videos shorter, I don't want to cut instructions short in order to reduce file size(s) - this particular video was filmed first, then a voice-over added afterwards, as I've found historically that this does reduce the length of the final video (it concentrates the mind, making the commentary fit the video).

Keep the comments coming!  Positive comments are always welcome of course, but I ALWAYS welcome negative feedback too as that highlights areas that need addressing.

LOL,

Phil
www.gr8-knots.com
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: roo on October 31, 2007, 09:48:20 PM
Phil,

I just gotta know (referring to your icon):  Why is one part of your rope red, and the other part the same color as your arm?
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on October 31, 2007, 10:36:42 PM
I think you're teasing, Derek! I'll bet you've been tying them with your eyes closed for years.

Seriously, I wasn't sure if the resolution was good enough, or indeed whether the instructions were clear enough. I was waiting for a little feedback before I moved on to the next knot (diamond knot).

snip.....

Thanks for the feedback.

Phil

No tease Phill, I don't tie decoratives, and until your video, the only fancy I could tie (with my eyes closed) was the Chinese button knot.  My good lady would be much happier if I tied something productive or useful, but my interests are in structure, stability and strength and I produce little more than copious diagrams and reams of variants of the same basic knot structure -- AKA 'Really BORING stuff.

I had not appreciated that the MWK was nothing more than a stack of interlocked OH knots.  Knowing that, I can now tie any number of strands into a MWK, in fact, I hadn't realised it, but I have been tying a two strand MWK for some time now -- it's one of my favorite bends.  If I now need to bend two cords to one, I might in future use a three strand MWK to do it, then there is the two strand MWK Loop - Oh Heaven - when all at once I saw a crowd, a host, of tangled knotty bits....

Anyway, to your question re resolution and clarity.  Yes, the resolution was a little jpeggy, and the odd arm between camera and knot blocked the view once, but generally, the resolution was quite adequate and the fact that I can now tie the MWK is testament to this.  However, there are a couple of comments I would make that might make the video a little better.  Don't forget that you know how to tie this knot and the viewer does not.  So when the end goes through the loop, to the viewer, that is all that happens.  You gave the almost throwaway instruction that the line goes UNDER the previous lines.  This was easy to miss (first time I did miss it and tied a very novel creation).  When there are key steps like this, either stress them or go in closer so the student cannot miss where the cord goes.  Second, dressing.  Instead of fiddling and squeezing the knot into form, explain that sometimes the lines might cross and lay in the wrong 'slot', show an example and show how to tease the line into its right position.  Finally, twist.  In some cords, twist can kill a knot and the MWK is no exception.  If the cord resists twists, then explain the importance of feeding the cord through the knot, then laying out any undesirable twist BEFORE starting to dress up the knot.  Once you have tightened in a kink, the job is buggered, best to understand the need to manage twist as you are tying.

See -- although it is only an ornamental, there is a chance to teach some real knotting while you are at it  :o

Apart from that, I am looking forward to Part 2

Derek
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 01, 2007, 10:15:23 AM
Hi Derek,

Thanks for your comments and observations. For a first bash I was reasonably happy, but you've made some really useful suggestions.

I'll redo the video (which I always knew would be necessary), and be mindful of the points you raise. I may use photos in one or two places to help if the video is not clear enough. The main dilema will be getting the instructions in clearly without dragging out the video for too long - considering other comments about loading time, it might be an idea to break the project down into smaller parts, although I'll need to be careful not to make it disjointed.

I'm really grateful for the time and effort you've put into this for me - thanks!

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 01, 2007, 10:19:46 AM
This one's in answer to Roo's question about my icon ...

The icon was a piece of royalty free clipart, and I believe the knot is tied in a baseball bat, the red part being the handle.

Yes, I know it could be construed as a rather aggressive image, but I think it's humerous. Some might even say there's a likeness in the face!!

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 01, 2007, 03:17:32 PM
I've tried to incorporate Derek's suggestions, and now the video project consists of two parts - an intro and the Matthew Walker knot.

I have just filmed the first diamond knot in the bellrope - this will probably take even more iterations before I can publish it because it's a tricky one to film!

Regards,

Phil
www.gr8-knots.com
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: squarerigger on November 01, 2007, 11:03:45 PM
Nice work on getting a video together Phil!  What was your motivation (other than to make sales perhaps?) for putting this together?  I want to add to Derek's comments on what I saw when I watched your video - the yellow line is difficult to see clearly, because it kinda glows on the screen - is there maybe a more muted color you could use?  A small point and what might be considered nit-picking, but my tired old eyes just cannot pick out the crossings and turns in this rather bright line.  Something for Derek - "although it is only an ornamental" seems a little harsh, but I'll take it in the spirit it was, I feel sure, intended.  It happens that the MWK is very practical, acting as the stopper to lanyards on square-rigged ships' standing rigging, thereby preventing the whole spider's nest from falling about our ears.  Just a thought....

Looking forward to seeing the next iteration Phil! ;D

SR
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on November 02, 2007, 12:04:29 AM
snip..... acting as the stopper to lanyards on square-rigged ships' standing rigging, thereby preventing the whole spider's nest from falling about our ears.  Just a thought....

SR

That's just plain scary, how on earth did all that rigging stay up before MW invented his famous knot???

Derek
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 02, 2007, 01:06:36 AM
Ahoy Square Rigger!

Motivation? Well, I produce video for a living (well, sort of ...), but as for "making sales" - it's a nice idea, but I'm not convinced that it would work, although I may try to come up with something.

Tying decorative knots is great fun, but the time involved doesn't generally make it pay. Having said that, there is perhaps some income to be earned from teaching, which is what I'm looking at at the moment, and the internet is an avenue I'm trying out. I do accept that there are many folks who produce works of art I can only dream of achieving, but I'll stick to the relatively simple stuff (it's very subjective, isn't it?).

You mention the colour of the cord and how bright the yellow is - yep, I agree, but it's very difficult putting together something for the web that works. Contrast between the knot and the background is critical, but the main issue is "quality versus file size" when it comes to producing streaming video for the internet, and whatever colour (sorry - color, 'cos North Americans can't spell!) is used, resolution of streaming video will never be as clear as a TV quality DVD. I do intend to produce a "Projects" DVD, which I'll send out for free to those in the IGKT who are interested, as long as there aren't too many (cost is an issue).

These web site videos are very much a trial to see if they work, and I'm very grateful to you guys and gals for your opinions - if the consencus is "They're crap" then I'll drop the idea, but it does seem as though I'm on the right track. The main thought behind web site videos is that they will help students "relive" classroom lessons - of course, if folks can folllow the videos without any classroom teaching then it's a bonus.

Finallly ... I'm glad to see you and Derek debating the practical uses of the MWK! I generally avoid discussions about practical uses of knots, their strengths and stabilities etc. ... if one of my bellropes falls apart, who cares? If my invention of a "Phil's graunch knot" causes someone to fall off a mountain, that would be a different matter ...

I'll stick to decorative stuff - it's safer!

Regards,

Phil
www.gr8-knots.com

Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: squarerigger on November 02, 2007, 04:47:20 AM
Hi Derek,

Yes, I know it sounds crazy, but with rigging it just was not all done as per OSHA standards ;) !!

As far as I know, and the folks at Chatham and at Portsmouth will fill in for me here please, the over two crown knot was in use at the time of Trafalgar (Victory was built in 1759) and that seemed to go rather well prior to the MWK.  Prior to that I have no firm notion, except to say that I suspect splicing was possibly used or maybe even a stoutly assembled Stevedore knot?  In either event, it was necessary to make the deadeye hole at which it was stopped as small as possible, relative to the line's diameter (fitted with a dumb-sheave if it were spliced I imagine or perhaps a heart block deadeye?).  Anything tied in such a fitting would then have a very difficult time being pulled through the deadeye itself.  Some arab dhows are fitted today with naught but a kind of turn with half hitches and they seem to stand up quite well though!  Treespyder should maybe throw in a comment or two here about the relative force at the end of a line reeved through a deadeye - should not be above a few hundred pounds methinks?  Eight shrouds to the side for the main of a 3-decker, each of 2 3/4 inches circumference or 7/8 inches diameter, capable of each shroud resisting several thousand pounds, rove in a five-part falls to advantage with perhaps an allowance of say 20% friction added for the deadeye "sheaves" should reduce the load on that stopper knot to around a few hundred pounds only.  Perhaps an exercise for the really keen engineering types who desire absolute precision in these things rather than a seaman's eye, say.

Phil - to your comment about the color (yes, I knew I would get some ribbing about that, but recall that I am British by birth and upbringing for thrity-five years, and considered by some as bilingual in English from England & America both, and with a touch of Aussie, Irish, Welsh and South African thrown in for good measure, perhaps even gifted in that respect!?) it serves me nor you nor the kind readers of the pages here any good purpose to debate the matter ad nauseam; suffice it to say that I felt I was nit-picking and that I did not intend for my comment to be taken too seriously unless it were something readily remedied.  Nothing stands up to the glare of video lighting very well, so why not just enjoy it the way it is?  I have found that blue with some tracer line in it against a stark white background works quite well though (hint, hint).

You are certainly correct about the return on investment - why if it were not for good folks like you the world of knotting would get no further ahead than a few dry books on library shelves or perhaps still photographs on a few web-pages, with artists renditions thrown in for good measure.  Strength to you my friend!  Thank you for performing an inestimable service.

Yours in forward movement,   ;D

Squarerigger
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on November 02, 2007, 08:37:34 AM
Phil,

Without question, video is the medium for teaching knot tying and I am certain that before long all knots will be presented on the internet with video tying instructions.

You might be interested in a very nice TH tutorial by Tim Allwine over at KHWW

http://www.khww.net/readarticle.php?article_id=73 (http://www.khww.net/readarticle.php?article_id=73)

He uses Quicktime and the video is very clear.
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 02, 2007, 08:58:33 PM
Hi Folks!

The next installment is on the site - the first of two diamond knots on the bellrope/landyard. This was a particularly tricky one to film, and I know it could be improved.

I'll finish this project, and then have a think about how to improve the presentation of future ones. Perhaps this one is a little ambitious, but I'll see it through. The next little video project should be a little simpler, something maybe along the lines of a monkey's fist keyring?

Before the next project, I'll consider better cord to demonstrate with (as per Square Rigger's suggestion), and think about different video formats. Having said that, I did try to watch the Quick Time movie Derek gave a link to, but couldn't watch it - a message about "missing software" appeared, but I've checked my Quick Time Player and it's up to date. I certainly could improve the resolution/clarity of my videos, but the file sizes would become prohibitive (especially for the longer clips like "Part 6 - First Diamond Knot 1, part 4", which runs to over 4 minutes).

If it's any consolation, the next knot on the landyard is a simpler diamond knot!

Regards,

Phil
www.gr8-knots.com
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on November 03, 2007, 01:35:21 PM
Hi Phill,

Thanks for the next knot videos.  I think I have spotted two more issues you might want to consider.

First, the video is filmed from a position in front and above you, not from your vantage point as the tyer.  Consequently, the student cannot see what the tyer sees.  The video link I posted earlier is filmed from the shoulder of the tyer and so is virtually what the tyer sees as he is tying the knot, so it is depicting what the student should be seing as they follow the lesson.

Second is an issue of scale.  In the TH video from KHWW, the knot takes up over half of the screen area, whereas in your videos the knot rarely takes up more than ca 20% of the screen.  This means that the details of cord position and route are easily missed because the cord is probably no more than 1% or 2% of the screen wide  -- we have plenty of arms and background and not enough knot.

On a technical note re compression.  The compression algorithms do not know which part of the image is important, so they attempt to make just a good a job of reproducing the background as they do for the knot and your hands.  However, as the background is not important, you can significantly increase the compression (and therefore need a lower level of compression for the same file size) if the background is virtually a single colour (i.e very dark shadow).  You can best achieve this by filming with your hands and knot illuminated (lamp or window) in a non illuminated room, with a dark shadow area behind your hands (i.e. no table).  Don't let your hands cast a shadow into the background otherwise the compression algorithm has to start work again recording the shaded background.

BTW I really must agree with the comments re that yellow cord, the camera really does not like rendering subtleties of yellow shading.  Red is another colour which often gives problems to digital imaging.  White (i.e. white and shades of grey) is good for the sensors to record the gentle shading of the curve of cords.

I cannot tie the diamond yet, but there are only so many variations of what you might be explaining, so I hope to be there soon.

Derek
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 03, 2007, 02:07:20 PM
Hi Derek,

Thanks for that. I must confess I was a little lazy in setting things up - I had a blue board, so used yellow cord for the contrast.

I experimented with different filming positions, and found one that suited me - unfortunately, as you say, it may not suit the viewer, and that becomes so much more apparent when things start getting tricky!  I agree that I really do need to be filming over the shoulder. The position I chose actually made the viewing screen of the camera visible to me, so I could see what was being filmed. With a little effort and experimentation I should be able to set things up better.

Most of the filming I do does not involve close-up work, so I've not needed to think about some of these things before.

I'm particularly grateful to you and Square Rigger for your comments and suggestions - I'll get there eventually!

PLEASE do let me know if and when you get that diamond knot tied!

Regards,

Phil

Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on November 03, 2007, 05:07:01 PM
Well, I THINK if followed - "fold it down and tuck it through its neighbor"  at least the shape I had at the end of this looke the same as yours in the video.

But when it came to "Over two, under two", I was just following your words, the video just did not show me the lead and the two lines I was to go over and the two lines I was to go under.  First guess and I finished up with a nice little 'doubled diamond'.  It looked good but in yours all the leads were single.  Second guess as to which two over and which two under and I have a nice herringbone effect.

Now all I need is a clear closeup of the top, bottom and the side so that I can confirm that my guess was right.

Derek
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 03, 2007, 05:27:00 PM
Hi Derek.

You're a man of infinite patience by the sound of things! If you'll bear with me, I think I'll redo some of the filming and production to try and make things clearer. There is certainly a herringbone look to the knot. Send me a private message or email with your postal address and I'll send you the finished article for reference - I know ultimately that the video needs to do the job on its own, but I think the physical article will help for now.

In reality, you're probably rather frustrated, but I'll get there even if it takes a few iterations.  Please bear with me.

Thanks!

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Tom on November 03, 2007, 08:30:26 PM
Hooray for Phil! My first Diamond - though I needed a couple of tries after heading for the wrong loop at "fold it down and tuck it through its neighbour". "Over two, under two" was also confusing (couldn't see the detail) as Derek has said above. The MTW was the simplest explanation I have seen - again, thanks. You have a lovely, gentle, John Noakes-style of presentation that I found very engaging.
A slight niggle: all the Diamond pages are called 'Part 2' when opened, so the order gets confused if one opens them all up to get them loading in the background. And (as above) a contrasting thread through the cord would be an asset.
Can't wait for the Foot Knot! Can't wait for the DVD!
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 03, 2007, 09:46:23 PM
Fantastic!

I'm really pleased you managed to follow my ramblings! It's obvious that I could explain and film things better, but with all the comments from you guys, along with your patience, I will make things easier next time around - honest. Thanks for telling me about the "part 2" confusion too - I hadn't noticed that, so something else I can look into.

By the way, I think you're the Tom who had the bike accident? If so, my thoughts are with you, and please accept my best wishes for a speedy recovery. I was, for some time, involved with advanced motorcycle training, so I've see the best and worst of the biking world - maybe your accident will enlist at least IGKT members into the "Think Bike" brigade? This probably isn't the forum to discuss bikes, but feel free to send me an email or private message, and we can talk bikes if you're still enthusiastic about two wheels.

DVD - when I get around to this, it will have menus, and the quality (i.e. resolution) of the video will be better, as the constraints of publishing video on the internet won't apply to a DVD.

It's interesting, and encouraging, that Derek thinks there's a place for the videoing of practical knots too. This is definitely one area where I would need to enlist the help of IGKT members - whilst there are many "normal" knots I can tie, I definitely would need to be very careful about advice on their uses, stability, strength, applications etc. There's maybe even a need to film the tying of knots "in situ" to make them interesting - any volunteers?  I recall teaching novice divers a few knots underwater, but I don't have film of that! Geoff "Cousteau" Wyatt will probably understand why I used a "buddy line" with a noose at each end when diving with novices? Anyway, I digress ...

Although I've made a few errors of judgement with regards to the set-up, the filming and the presentation of my stuff so far, it's evident from the interest shown that it's worthwhile pursuing.

Thanks!

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 04, 2007, 09:55:03 PM
Next iteration ...

I've refilmed and published the previuosly published parts of the video landyard project, and added the second diamond knot.

I think it's clearer now, although I still accept that the resolution is not perfect - it's gonna be a lot easier putting stuff on DVD 'cos I won't have to worry about quality settings in order to keep file size down.

For the next week or so I'm going to be pretty tied up (ha, ha ...), but I will try to publish the final footrope knot video to round off the project tomorrow.

Regards,

Phil
www.gr8-knots.com
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: turks head 54 on November 05, 2007, 01:47:10 AM
On my computer the video loaded up plenty fast.

TH54
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: aknotter on November 05, 2007, 02:23:11 AM
Hi Phil,
   
Firstly, let me say that I think your instructions are great! Secondly, may I pass the link to these instructions on to a friend? She teaches autistic children and has asked for instructions on tying a star knot as one of her students shows an interest in knots. I think the star is a little too advanced, but these instructions are presented so well that I'd like her to see them. (I myself, may even be able to tie the Matthew Walker using your instructions?????). So, when (if) I receive your permission, I will pass your link on to her. You have produced great video, I think.
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 05, 2007, 09:39:30 AM
Sure thing - pass the link on to anyone!

I hope it's of some use and interest to your friend.

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: oldpete on November 05, 2007, 05:01:53 PM
I found the video very well presented and very helpful, it is always nice to see others tying knots, or was that getting 'tied in knots'.
Some time ago I bought a copy of Richard Phelan's video, 'Knots made Easy'
What the knotting world need is something simular but now in DVD form. Just an idea for anyone capable of producing one, I for one would be in the queue to buy a copy.
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 05, 2007, 05:33:07 PM
Hi Old Pete!

Thanks for the compliment!

Yes, I also have a copy of Richard's VHS video, and I started talking to him a long time ago about converting it to a menu-driven DVD. However, he seems to have now disappeared, and I understand he sold the rights to a third party. I emailed the distributers to see if they were interested, but they didn't reply.

My intention, if I have time, is to produce a "Projects" DVD to suppliment any courses I can persuade colleges to hold. From a commercial point of view, it's unlikely that a DVD on its own would be viable, and in reality I would rather use my own material than adapt someone else's. The IGKT has experts in many fields, and there must be a mountain of stuff worth videoing and putting on DVD, but it would demand a lot of time from other people. On top of which, I think to demand time and effort from other people so that I could make money out of it might be a bit cheeky! If there was a huge market, then commissions might make it worthwhile to them, but I don't believe the market is very big.

Anyway, I've filmed the last part of the landyard project - now I need to convert the video(s) to the right format and publish on my web site. When I've done that, I'll post again to let folks know. That post is likely to be quite lengthy, as I have certain individuals to thank for their input, and I'll need to highlight the lessons learned from the exercise.

Watch this space!

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 05, 2007, 06:53:55 PM
At last!

The landyard video project is finished and published on my web site -

www.gr8-knots.com

I'd like to thank all those folks who have contributed to this topic and sent me emails or private messages with their support and advice, particularly Derek Smith and the Square Rigger.

Before I go any further, I sincerely hope some of you have managed to follow the project and actually tie the landyard!

I have certainly learned plenty from this exercise. There have been questions about video format, which I still need to think about, questions about zoom levels with the video, suggestions about using photos to help explain things, the colour and type of cord used etc. etc...

I accept that the presentation needs improving, but for a first attempt I'm reasonably happy. That's not to say I won't endeavour to improve things next time around!

Careful thought is needed to decide what the next project should be. Whilst my own area of interest (notice I say "interest", not "expertise"?!) is decorative stuff, I recognise the validity of publishing practical stuff too - maybe I'll give this a try? If I do try this route, I will certainly need to enlist the advise and help of IGKT members to make sure I'm doing things right! Having said that, because I've had so much support for this initial project, I know you folks will follow any posts about such a venture and advise accordingly.

Any suggestions or requests for future projects will be gratefully received.

A number of people have asked me privately or in public about a DVD. Forgive me for repeating myself, but the purpose of this exercise is NOT to establish a market for making money from such a DVD (although I wouldn't turn down an opportunity like that), I don't actually believe the market is sufficiently large to make it viable. My ultimate aim is to produce a "Projects" DVD, where I can present something to suppliment any courses I might be able to persuade colleges to put on. Making money from knotting is NOT easy, but perhaps making money from teaching it is possible? That would be particularly satisfying if we can encourage more people to take an interest in knotting, whether that be practical or decorative.

When you consider the number of people making Greetings Cards, surely there's an opening for us to promote knotting through craft courses? Even QVC and other digital TV channels in the UK are devoting more and more time to the subject of Greetings Cards - materials, books, videos and so on. Just a thought.

Anyway, thanks once again for your help and support.

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on November 05, 2007, 08:59:11 PM
Hi phil,

I am still on the second knot but unfortunately all the videos have turned into the intro video ??

Derek
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 05, 2007, 09:13:00 PM
Hi Derek,

I've checked the server and I believe the videos are correct, but I'll do a more thorough check.

Can you make sure you've deleted all temporary internet files/cookies? I supsect you know how to do that, but just in case ...

In your browser, select Tools, then on the "General" tab select (under section "Temporary Internet Files") delete cookies and delete temporary internet files. Sorry if I'm teaching Grandma to suck eggs, but I'm thinking quickly off the top of my head.

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 05, 2007, 09:28:00 PM
Whoops!

When you click on "Tools", you need to then click on "Internet Options" before going to the "General" tab.

Sorry,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on November 05, 2007, 10:02:42 PM
No Luck Phil,

Parts 1 to 5 all play the intro, parts 6 & 7 play the Footrope knot which I managed to right off - first go -- YESSS

Although the properties for each of the links 1 through 5 all seem to link to separate files, they all just play the intro.

I'm using Firefox with NoScript, but have allowed gr8-knots.com

The links all worked until this latest review, I have accessed the diamond knot series several times and not needed to delete temp or cookies.

Thanks for the Footrope knot - now all I have to master is the diamond.

Derek
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on November 05, 2007, 10:28:41 PM
Looks like its really starting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74WfI_AM9wU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74WfI_AM9wU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV1K-WU-Jgc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV1K-WU-Jgc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNWELuXo_bY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNWELuXo_bY)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_iGkv36dww (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_iGkv36dww)
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 05, 2007, 11:17:33 PM
Hi Derek,

Just tried Firefox and had the same problems. I've had problems with Firefox before with "Screen Capture" lessons I've published on graphics software applications because Firefox handles ActiveX controls differently. Additionally, I also find that Firefox doesn't display even plain pages the way I expect it to.

Ultimately, I know I should make sure that whatever I publish will work with Firefox as well as Internet Explorer, but I must confess I've got fed up with Firefox - I know that doesn't help those who prefer it to IE, but unless I really need to do it for commercial reasons, so far I have found it's not been worth the effort.

Any chance you could fire up Internet Explorer to view the site and the videos?

By the way, I posted a sample to you today.

Incidentally, it's ironic that one of the video links you gave in your message show's the trucker's hitch - that's one I suggested for one of your "Desert Island" knots (although I called it the "Lorry Driver's hitch"!). Mind you, it sounds like Dan isn't a fan of that particular hitch.

Phil

Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on November 06, 2007, 01:06:32 AM
Hi Phil,

Thanks for the sample, I look forward to studying it.

I don't think this issue is a Firefox thing, because up until today, I could access all the tutorials without issue.  It has only been this last site revision which has created the problem.

Sadly, if a site is not accessible to Firefox, then that site goes unaccessed.  The days of IE on my machines are long gone, if it were not part of the OS it would not even be gracing my hard drives.

Still, thanks for the tutorials, they were fun.

Derek
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 06, 2007, 10:55:00 AM
Hi Derek.

I couldn't abandon you after all your support! I've reloaded the site and everything now appears ok in Firefox (well, the videos play anyway). For some reason I had to re-upload some files more than once. The daft thing is that the files on the server are the same whatever browser people use, so it's quite frustrating that they don't appear the same!

The formatting of the pages is different in FF than IE, which basically means having to scroll down further, but I guess that's a minor issue.

I guess I will have to look at the technical side of FF, as more and more people are using it? I know my main web site looks a mess in FF - some videos don't play, and some menu items have aqcuired underlines.

Anyway, you should now be able to watch ALL the videos - let me know how you get on. Every light pull in your house is now going to have this landyard?

Good Luck!

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: EddieBro on November 24, 2007, 09:10:03 AM
Hi Phil,
Just finished the lanyard project on your site. I thought it was very well done. I had to retie the diamond three times, and the footrope knot twice, no fault of yours, as you warned they were complicated knots. I have alot of experience tying practical knots and  a little tying sennet. It took me about 5.5 hours to tie the whole lanyard, I don't know if thats fast or slow, but I thought it good for never having tied any of the four knots involved. I just wanted to let you know how well I thought you have done. I hope you are still working on more, I for one can't wait for the next project!

Well done!

Thanks

Eddie Broyles
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 24, 2007, 10:45:34 AM
Hi Eddie.

I'm glad you perservered and got there!

5 and a half hours? I think when I first learned the three knots it took me a lot longer to learn them, never mind "string them together".

Thanks for the compliments too - it's nice to hear that the video worked for you.

I intend to do more, but at the moment I'm concentrating on finding a job! My video business is not really paying off for the amount of hours I'm putting in, so I think I'll look for a nice, low-stress 9 to 5!!

Keep practicing!

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Tom on November 24, 2007, 04:39:45 PM
One lanyard in hand, thanks to you Phil! (Merry Christmas, Auntie Vera!) All worked very smoothly, and after a couple of practice attempts with the the video before me, I can do it from memory, and more to the point, it makes knotting sense! Rather than just learning  fomula by rote, I can now see how it fits together. The Phelan video is very confusing by comparison, and much too fast - it also involves a lot of knotty terminology that is not explained to the newcomer ("crown up", "wall down" &c). He also has a tendency to cover his work with his hands, though the highlighting of individual strands with a felt-tip to show a tricky bit works well. And, frankly, some of his anecdotes are nonsense: I doubt very much that 'seeing stars' has anything to do with star knots!
Roll on Phil-the-rope's DVD endeavour!
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 24, 2007, 05:17:19 PM
Hi Tom.

So, landyards in everyone's Christmas stocking this year, eh?

"I can see how it fits together" - this is so important, isn't it, and I'm really chuffed you have achieved that!

A slight aside - you should start trying to tie knots in bottles because understanding construction is essential. In fact, tying a knot in a bottle really does concentrate the mind, and you do have to think about how a knot is constructed. A good exercise for anyone. Ironic really, that my "knots in bottles" are restricted to basic knots, when my passion is for decorative stuff - if anybody expects me to tie a mulit-strand bellrope in a bottle they can get knotted!!!!!!

I must confess that I learned a lot of decorative stuff from Richard Phelan's video. Yes, it took LOTS of practice with some of the knots, but I think he did a decent job.

So far, all I've produced is a simple (well, "simplish") landyard video, and it took several iterations before I achieved something acceptable in terms of producing a worthwhile video, and my thanks to IGKT forum members for helping me with that. Richard produced quite a long video, and he must have refilmed so much before he was happy. I agree that some of it is confusing, but where do you draw the line? I think I'll try to build up slowly to a "portfolio", for want of a better expression!

As for anecdotes, I must confess I had my doubts, but wouldn't dare contradict anybody 'cos there must be millions of opinions on the history of knots!

Right - I've just filmed the tying of a single strand diamond knot (or "friendship" knot ...), so I'll be putting together a streaming video for my web site soon. I'll post something on the "decorative" forum when it's ready.

Tom - just because you've found this passion for knotting, that doesn't mean you can become a couch potatoe and forget about all the physio and exercise you need to get that leg working again!

Right - better see what the captured video of the single strand diamond knot looks like, add a voice-over and get that video published on my site!

Regards to all you fine folks!

Phil
www.gr8-knots.com




Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Tom on November 25, 2007, 03:35:23 PM
Fair dos - I can't wait for more installments in your project. I've just had another look at the Phelan video this morning, and some bits are indeed good, but I appear to have 'zoned out' during those on first viewing. He certainly makes it look easy. Quite large chunks of it appeared to be new to me thanks to the marvel of opiates! How do I get my hands in the bottle to tie the knots?
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 25, 2007, 04:07:45 PM
Hi Tom!

Opiates ... I must be honest, I stick to taking plenty of liquids, although I suspect my GP wouldn't approve of the kinds of liquids I'm referring to!

Knots in a bottle - right, my next video project I think! It won't be easy to set up and film, but it has to be worth a try. Once you learn the basic concept, you won't be able to stop doing it. Yet again, it was one of those things an IGKT member showed me how to do, and I was astonished at the simplicity of it. I'm really sorry I can't remember who it was that showed me, otherwise I'd give credit here.

When you're mobile again, you MUST come to one of the meetings - you won't believe what a friendly, helpful bunch of folks they are at the IGKT!

Ho hum .... I'd better start thinking about filming that "Knot in a bottle".

I'll bet your girlfriend can't wait for you to recover - "Get out on that soddin' motorbike, I'm fed up off tripping over all those bits of string ..."

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Tom on November 26, 2007, 03:17:49 PM
you're not wrong! (and to be fair, it may have been the whisky that I use liberally as a solvent)
So these are actual knots in actual bottles, and not theoretical larks of a philosophical nature (like 'brain in a bottle' discussions of ontologists)?
I am intrigued!
x
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 26, 2007, 03:35:04 PM
Hi Tom,

Yes, real knots in bottles. I had a quick bash at filming one yesterday, but it's a fiddly process and therefore difficult to keep short!

There is an example on my site of a bowline in a bottle -

http://www.gr8-knots.com/knot_in_a_bottle.htm

What you need to do is get your piece of cord and tie a loop with a bit of whipping twine (or any strong thin thread will do) through the end you're going to work on INSIDE the bottle. Using a bent coat hanger, or anything thin that will fit into the bottle, you can twist and pull a knot into shape using the loop you tied with twine through the end of the cord. When you've finished the knot you then cut and pull out the twine. NOTE - you need the twine loop to be tied in such a way that it's easy to get at to cut!

I don't know if that makes any sense to you? Let me know. I suppose I could take some photos or draw some diagrams?

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 26, 2007, 03:53:50 PM
I'm attaching a very simple diagram.

It is possible to "part-tie" your knot before putting the cord in the bottle, or a least put a loop in to start with if the bottle neck is wide enough. Of course, it should NOT be posssible to tie the whole knot and then insert it in the bottle!

Hope the diagram is of a little help!

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Tom on November 27, 2007, 01:04:23 PM
Brilliant! I'll give it a go with one of this pile of empty whisky bottles beside my bed! It'll pass the time while a wait for my first consignment from Footrope Knots (SO excited! A lignum vitae fid amongst other things! Just like the old days! I can't turn my own because Dr says I am not to get sawdust in my wounds, and the sheets might get caught in the lathe... Is there anything left to do now Health and Safety have got their claws into everything?).
One question: wouldn't it be easier to use a wider-necked bottle, or even a bowl?
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 27, 2007, 01:19:47 PM
"Knot in a bowl", eh? What a brilliant idea - I think I'll steal it before you get it patented. Better start 'phoning round the Chandlers to see who's interested.

Actually, I've often wondered if there's such a thing as cord which expands significantly when wet (and stays enlarged when it dries out)? You could tie something really flash, put it in the bottle, wet it and watch it fill the space. That would look quite impressive, and you could tell folks it took months of hard work making it!

Another idea - cut the bottom off the bottle and insert your work of art through that. Then get your local glass blower to "weld" the bottom back on without showing the join?

Maybe we need a forum for daft ideas?!?

Good luck Tom!
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Tom on November 27, 2007, 02:12:53 PM
The expanding rope notion could certainly 'fly': so long as one could fill the bottle with hot oil. Flax fibres can't be that different from corn (can they?), and - with correct temperature and timing - I think one could achieve a texture akin to that of a Cheesy Wotsit (US: Cheetos). Aunty Vera is sorted for Christmas (US: Kwanza, See above), but perhaps a Bowline-in-a-bowl would be just the ticket for Uncle George - maybe a DIY (US:Home Improvement) kit: "Just add bowl!"
And (as a variation on the Gift Classic) how about 'Rope-in-a-Soap' where different, ever more exciting, knots would reveal themselves as one bathed... wooo!
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Tom on November 29, 2007, 06:29:05 PM
And just to show how great your video tutorials are, have a look at this colourful doglead (Tom's decorative project No.2) that I fashioned last night for my brother's new pup! Just an extension of your lanyard, really (Tom's decorative project No.1). Rather than splice in the handle, I finished with a footrope knot (thanks again, Phil!) that can be squeezed through the red bit (topped and tailed by diamond knots - yet more thanks to Phil!), so you can tie the wee snapper to a lamppost without releasing its collar.
I am very pleased with it, but it used up a full 20m of my wonderful consignment from the Great Des Pawson.
Now, if I could find a good bowl, or a soap recipe that didn't involve to much rendering...
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on November 29, 2007, 10:48:04 PM
Tom,

That's fab! I hope the young mutt appreciates your efforts (I'm refering to the pup, not your brother of course!) I'm really quite impressed that you've accomplished something so useful and practical so soon. Very satisfying, though, isn't it?

Now that you're an expert, perhaps you should start knocking up a few key rings for your friends? The two diamond knots, plus the Matthew Walker and footrope knots that you've learned can be used in various combinations to make small keyrings. Don't fall into the same trap as me though - it's easy to get carried away, use thick cord and finish up with keyrings that are too big!

That footrope knot is so useful for finishing things off, isn't it?

Aha, you've noticed how easy it is to get through cord, too eh? Don't worry - Des and Liz will keep you amply supplied!

Good for you - nice job!

By the way, for some strange reason I'm not attracting much interest for the "knot in a bowl" concept!

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Tom on November 30, 2007, 05:05:37 PM
Perhaps you need a bigger bowl.
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: drjbrennan on May 19, 2008, 09:23:45 PM
I've just got a whizzy new PC and updated from Windows ME!
I can make copies of the Richard Phelan video on DVD quite easily now. Send me a message if you want to discuss this matter further.
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on May 19, 2008, 10:53:17 PM
I will send drjbrennan a personal message regarding this issue, as I know his intentions are entirely honourable (as I know from the wonderful feedback I received from him regarding my own video efforts).

A WORD OF WARNING ...!

PLEASE READ THIS MESSAGE IN ITS ENTIRITY BEFORE CONDEMNING OR COMMENTING.

Whereas copying video as a backup for personal use is one matter, I would not recommend copying for any other purpose!

I mention this not only in relation to Richard's video, but to any other video production. I know to my own cost as a videographer that piracy has cost me a lot of money, so it's a matter close to my heart. Not for one moment do I think that is your intention, but one needs to be very mindful of copyright.

An update ... I have tracked Richard Phelan down, and we have now met a couple of times now that he is back in the UK, and we are now in the process of producing a DVD version of "Knots Made Easy". This will be a menu-driven DVD, incorporating all the original lessons, although there will be a change to iintroductions, titles and a few other things in order to make it a professional DVD production. There will be some considerable cost to us in having the original "Master" converted into a format from which we can work with, along with artwork for covers etc... On top of which, any DVD production will involve the cost of encrypting the master DVD to prevent "illegal" copying. Yes, I have already captured the original video for producing a "draft" DVD, but this has been done with Richard's permission.

Richard did in fact sell his excess stock of VHS videos, but the copyright is still firmly registered in his name, which means any other production of DVDs for distribution puts the producer at severe risk of breech of copyright. Considering the copyright could be sold for several thousands of pounds, this is a BIG legal risk for anyone going "their own way".

I am, however, mindful that some IGKT members might feel their expertise has been used for commercial gain (as, presumably, they did with the original VHS video), but this is a matter that presumably that was addressed with the original video? Bear in mind that Richard and I are investing money into a speculative venture with regards the DVD, and I would ask everyone to respect that venture (which may, or may not, work).

Finally, let's not forget that, despite this being a commercial venture, it is entirely possible (and indeed desired) that the IGKT will be well publicised by such a venture.

King Regards,

Phil The Rope
www.gr8-knots.com
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on May 20, 2008, 06:22:46 PM
Yo Phil,

I know we all have to make a living, but I feel that you might be headed for stormy waters here.

As the technology becomes available to just about everyone with a computer and a webcam, chances are we will see an ever increasing flood of knot tying videos, some of which will be of excellent quality (witnessed by some of the stunning productions posted onto YouTube et al) and all of which will be free view.  So while you may do an excellent job of it, I can't help but think that it will only serve as a template for all the free stuff that is already starting to be produced.

And then of course, if the IGKT are offered the chance of hosting good knot tying videos for free what do you think they will do?

Derek
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: oldropes on May 20, 2008, 07:27:49 PM
KNOTS MADE EASY video By Richard Phelan.
It has come to my  attention ?AGAIN? that some who with the best interests in mind are putting themselves in line to be prosecuted for piracy ad fraud. Several individuals have offered DVDs already made and some offering to make them copying of the Video of  the 94 min ?Knots Made Easy?.  The Knots made easy Video has strict copyright issues here as registered in London and also at IP Lab ? Protection. I would like to give this clear warning that if anyone produces any DVD for what ever reason, even for personal use,  or copies this, will be prosecuted and action will be forth coming from our legal department. For those with DVDs already made I ask that they be destroyed and removed to avoid unpleasant action being taken against them. Some names have been given already which individuals will be hearing from my solicitors in due course. A DVD is in process of being made by myself of Knots Made Easy, this cannot be copied as inscription code on it. Please pass this message forward to anyone concerned who thinks they can get away with it!
Thank you
Richard M Phelan. Producer of Knots Made Easy Video.
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on May 20, 2008, 07:31:52 PM
Hi Derek,

Point taken!

I understand, as you say, that the technology is now available to many more people these days. However, how many people will put aside a year of their life to produce something like Richard's "Knots Made Easy" video? Additionally, as I know from my own experience, having the technology doesn't mean they can use it without lots of training. For example, how long did it take me to produce my web site video? And that was with loads of help and input from you kind folks! Incidentally, I will be removing those videos on my site with a view to marketing KME on DVD instead. I can at least say that I know how to use the technology because I've spent the last 2-4 years (on and off) learning how to do so.

Yep, there are some interesting videos on YouTube etc., but the quality willl not match a TV quality DVD. Our plan is to produce something of much higher quality than the free stuff. Whether we succeed or not, only time will tell!

As for the IGKT - it would be great if they would support something like this (in fact, I believe Des was marketing Richard's video at one time, albeit it from a business point of view with Footrope Knots rather than for the Guild).

Thanks, as always, for your input - much appreciated.

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on May 20, 2008, 07:36:30 PM
Hi Derek,

Point taken!

I understand, as you say, that the technology is now available to many more people these days. However, how many people will put aside a year of their life to produce something like Richard's "Knots Made Easy" video? Additionally, as I know from my own experience, having the technology doesn't mean they can use it without lots of training. For example, how long did it take me to produce my web site video? And that was with loads of help and input from you kind folks! Incidentally, I will be removing those videos on my site with a view to marketing KME on DVD instead. I can at least say that I know how to use the technology because I've spent the last 2-4 years (on and off) learning how to do so.

Yep, there are some interesting videos on YouTube etc., but the quality willl not match a TV quality DVD. Our plan is to produce something of much higher quality than the free stuff. Whether we succeed or not, only time will tell!

As for the IGKT - it would be great if they would support something like this (in fact, I believe Des was marketing Richard's video at one time, albeit it from a business point of view with Footrope Knots rather than for the Guild).

Thanks, as always, for your input - much appreciated.

Regards,

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on May 20, 2008, 11:05:40 PM
Hi Phil,

It was fun working with you on the tutorial bell rope videos, the time and professional advice was given freely even though you openly stated that you might at some point make a sale out of the DVD.  It was great to get a gratis copy of the final DVD, especially as again it was not expected.  You are a great bloke, and I would probably have stumped up for a copy of the 'Knots Made Easy' Video when it eventually came out on the basis that you deserve support from the team here on the Forum.

But Richard M Phelan. Producer of Knots Made Easy Video and his warning in triplicate not to infringe on his copyright, well that is altogether a different matter.  Not really what you might call good PR now is it ??

I earn my living by creating copyright protected products and I know how important it is for people to respect that taking copyrighted material is theft.

So although I take copyright ownership very seriously, I don't go to my potential customers and do a Richard M Phelan. Producer of Knots Made Easy Video on them.  I really don't think that would do my marketing strategy any good at all.

I did not appreciate the outburst and I so did not appreciate the outburst in triplicate that I can definately indicate to Richard M Phelan. Producer of Knots Made Easy Video that he can now strike one sale off before the job even hits the cutting floor.

If his videoing style is any match for his Forum style, I doubt I will be missing much.

Good Luck Phil - you might be needing it.

Derek
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on October 25, 2008, 04:58:17 PM
Hi Derek.

I've deliberated for some time as to whether I should continue this post, as I know it might just pour salt on old wounds, and I don't wish to start (or encourage!) arguments. I've been browsing, and occassionally contributing to, the forums in recent weeks, so I know how easy it is to hit the wrong nerve. For example, I could not believe how using the expression "Forum User", rather than "Forum Contributor", could cause so much friction - life's too short, I'm afraid, to worry about such trivia in my opinion!

Anyway, I digress ...

Before I get to the main point (bear with me), I would like to say that both Richard and I give up our time freely (as most IGKT folks do) to help others learn knotting techniques. Yes, Richard and I are pursuing a commercial venture that could not have been attempted without considerable help from Guild members (and that help is acknowledged gratefully at the BEGINNING of the DVD, before the lessons start), but I repeat (see other posts) that most commercial ventures would not be possible without the help and advice from others anyway (whether that be knotting, or anything else for that matter).

I would like to add something here in Richard's defence ...

Richard's response may have been less than subtle, but please put it in context - considerable expense was incurred in producing the original video, and yet more expense was incurred in producing the DVD, not least my own personal sacrifice in giving up a lucrative career to market this (along with one or two other speculative ventures).

There are various rumours and stories about "Knots Made Easy", and what happened to the old VHS stock and copyright, so let me put the record straight -

Old VHS stock was sold off cheaply, but the copyright was NOT sold, and Richard has been plagued with attempts to infringe this copyright. Personally, I understand his frustration at trying to keep control. Yes, some people have, quite innocently and with good intent, offered to "convert" the VHS to DVD (ok, only a straight copy, rather than the new menu driven version, but that does ultimately threaten the copyright - one "innocent" copy could actually result in millions of illicit copies). I did send a few personal messages to members to explain this.

I'm mindful of Europa Chang's fabulous agreement with Schaake and Turner to distribute "The Braider" on CD, with profits going to a cancer charity - I'll bet there are now more illicit copies in circulation then there are legitimate copies! It only takes one innocent, helpful person to give a copy in good faith to someone without a conscience, and the charity suffers.

Please, PLEASE, Derek - don't take this thread the wrong way. I am simply trying to explain the background of this copyright issue. I am a really easy going chap, and I know you and I have both helped each other in the past (and long may that arrangement continue), but I support Richard's warning (even if I might have worded it differently).

Phil
http://www.knotsdvd.com
http://www.gr8-knots.com


Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Fairlead on October 25, 2008, 08:49:55 PM
Hi Phil,
Has Richard Phelan joined the Guild again recently?  If he is perporting to me a member I don't see his name in the Membership Handbook.  And some of us have been Guild members long enough to remember the way he 'Used' the IGKT and its members to market 'Knots Made Easy' then left.
I too will not be buying the DVD

Gordon
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on October 26, 2008, 12:36:08 AM
Whoa ... calm down Gordon!

I apologize for the length of this reply, but I hope those who visit will actually read it through.

Things have got awfully personal all of a sudden!

Yes, Richard has rejoined the Guild after being out of the country for a while - I encouraged him to do so. I suppose Richard might reply, but I am replying on my own behalf, because I feel offended and disappointed on a personal level.

"Using the Guild"? OK, I'll put my hand up to that accusation too, as should we all if we're honest - that was the whole point of joining wasn't it, i.e. to learn from others? There is nothing dishonest or unethical about that, surely?

All those members who have written so many fabulous books on knotting - did they "use" the Guild and get criticised publicly for doing so? I never thought they should be criticised, and I never will.

Should we pillory those IGKT members (and non members too I suppose) whose links are on the IGKT site, advertising their work over the internet? Should we demand from them an explanation as to where they acquired the knowledge to be able to produce their work to sell, and condemn them if they admit to learning from others?

I thought the point of the IGKT was to promote knot tying? The way we do that is by sharing information and knowledge, and normally we do that
very willingly. Sure, I've learned plenty myself, thanks to my friends (and I have made some GREAT friends) in the IGKT, but I'd like to think I've also shared my knowledge and experience with others too. Some folks do make a profit from imparting knowledge, whether that be through books, videos, demonstrations, talks or whatever, but when one considers the time we spend "teaching" or talking to others it often doesn't amount to much more than a few pence per hour.

If I am able to impart sufficient knowledge to anyone who subsequently manages to sell work based on my teaching then I'd personally be
delighted. At least it would mean the profile of knotting is increased.

I held a workshop on decorative knotting for a local scout group only two nights ago - I did NOT charge for my time, I gave away several pounds worth of cord, and made a big effort to promote the Guild. YES, I did publicise the DVD too, but I didn't sell a single one (although I hope I might in weeks to come, and I am NOT ashamed of that). That has not stopped me accepting an invitation to hold another workshop, or accept an invitation from one of the scout's mothers who was present to hold a similar workshop for her church's youth section. Today, I spent a couple of hours visiting one of those scouts (mother present, incidentally) to further encourage him - I lent him several books, my favourite being Stuart Grainger's "Knotcraft" (which is brilliant in my opinion) - perhaps I should have interrogated Stuart first to make sure he hadn't learned anything from a fellow Guild member, as he did make money out of his book (he certainly deserved to)?

Personally, I am proud to have "used" the IGKT, if that's your perception, to better myself, and will continue to promote and encourage knot tying, whether it's for profit or not.

If you read from the beginning of this topic (yes, I know there are currently 5 pages worth - sorry), you'll see the rapport and banter that like minded people engaged in when I was trying to put together the streaming video for my web site - this, for me, epitomizes the nature of free-giving, helpful, fellow Guild members. It was good fun, and although I was the one who initially asked for help you'll see that others were pleased to learn too.

Don't I recall that the original VHS version of "Knots Made Easy" used to be advertised in "Knotting Matters"? Will we reach the stage where the committee starts profiling and interrogating members to establish whether they "fit in" with acceptable commercial parameters? Will there be an "elite" established who are allowed to plagiarize the work of others?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't I also recall a conversation where you told me that you actually bought a copy of the original VHS video of "Knots Made Easy"? Presumably, you're happy to play that?

The implication in your post suggests that people like me are only in the Guild to profit from the expertise of others. I am offended by that implication, and would hope that those who know me would defend me - I AM easy going, love to learn from others, and moreover I enjoy passing on what little knowledge I have to others.

I am very disappointed that my explanation about the copyright issue has resulted in a character assassination.

I now wonder if I'm perceived as a villain in the eyes of the IGKT? I think it is extremely unfair to be condemned as such, and I sincerely hope others will contribute to this thread so that I know whether I've suddenly lost a whole bunch of friends. If I am to be condemned, then there is a whole bunch of people behind me who will suffer the same fate.

Phil Cook
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: skyout on October 26, 2008, 02:40:38 AM
I would like to apologize to Phil for the post below as I felt slighted from what was my own misunderstanding. I will try very hard not to let this occur again as I now know there are some big differences in American and British English. I really hope you can find it in yourself to accept my apology for being daft of the differences.


... I could not believe how using the expression "Forum User", rather than "Forum Contributor", could cause so much friction - life's too short, I'm afraid, to worry about such trivia in my opinion!

Anyway, I digress ...
I don't know you other than by what I read and that you are in the UK. I don't think it is trivial to insult anyone anywhere and here in America if you call someone a "User" it is insulting. I was not insulted by Mel, Webmistress, using the term as I'm sure it was not done in a malicious way. I thought my attempt at humor would have gotten that across while at the same time prevent her from potentially insulting someone else but evidently the different language meanings didn't ring a bell with you, even though Derek, also in the UK, got it I'm sure, as evidenced by our "kidding" each other about new handles. So I'll spell it out for you. I am a member of the IGKT Forum.

So maybe you did digress, but thanks for trying to throw me under the bus; was that just to get some heat off of you or did you really not understand my other post? I think you knew exactly what I was inferring to in my other posts because with just one member using the term "used", you immediately went off on a 17 paragraph defense strategy. Hardly the same BS theory "life's too short, I'm afraid, to worry about such trivia in my opinion!" you spouted about my post, now is it? Do you see any similarities here; user - used??? I'm sure others could punch holes in your defensive comments but as this all occurred before I joined, I'll just stick with your double talking comments concerning me.  Curious minds may want to know but I really don't care because I am done with explaining myself on this issue.
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Phil_The_Rope on October 26, 2008, 09:51:46 AM
Whoops!

I obviously didn't understand, and didn't realise "user" was an insult - my apologies.

Actually, the 17 paragraph reply was in response to Gordon's comments and absolutley nothing to do with your original request about not being referred to as a user - I was trying to use the reference to your post almost as a throw away comment. Again, my sincere apologies - I did not mean to offend you.

Phil
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: Sweeney on October 26, 2008, 07:07:22 PM
I've followed this exchange with passing interest (mainly because I bought the excellent DVD). I joined the guild well over 20 years ago having found its existence in a paperback by Geoffrey Budworth. I doubt if anyone has written more books than Geoffrey and although it's a long time since we last met a more helpful individual I have yet to meet. Some members do try and make money and even a living from knotting - good luck to them! If they join the the Guild I hope they'll help the rest of us who would like to learn - and if that means paying a few pounds (dollars euros or whatever) for a book or DVD then why not? This is not a secret society where we meet behind closed doors and only admit the chosen few - far from it I hope. Nor are we a trade association protecting our members interests but we are a charity with a clear aim of providing education. So should our schools and colleges (paid for out of our taxes) avoid teaching people in case they make a living at it? I sincerely hope not for all our sakes. So come on people let's take knotting forward and congratulate those who make a success of it - in whatever way. And if this forum helps us achieve our charitable aim then our membership fees are being well spent.
Title: Re: Video on the web
Post by: DerekSmith on October 28, 2008, 04:08:21 PM
Hi Phil,

Once again I seem to have stirred up the dunny pot and caused a stink.  Richards ticking off in triplicate got right up my nose and in a blink I concluded that I did not like the bloke, then straight away put fingers to the keyboard.  Sorry  --  I should have known better.

Anyways, let me come clean and stand right up alongside you and state that I also 'use' the IGKT - unashamedly even.

Whenever I give a talk or a lesson about knots I always make the statement that I am a member of the IGKT because, apart from advertising the Guild, it also adds credence to my sorry presentation.  Likewise, if I ever manage to find a group with enough dosh to pay me for my time, I will again unashamedly utilise the fact that I am a member of the IGKT to help them feel that they are getting more for their money than they really are (The Dunny Man on the subject of 'Knots and Cord' can be quite boring you know).

So, 'using' the IGKT for Kudos, credence or profit - Here Here - I am all in support of it, anything that spreads the word that the IGKT is the home of all serious knotters and things knottilatious is fine by me (I keep trying to get a group of bondage fettishists to invite me along to a session to give them some tips, but no luck so far, even with my 'Member of the IGKT' credential proudly sported).

So please do not go getting wound up and all hot under the collar my friend, about something which is nothing and which I caused by getting out of my pram over Richard's turn of phrase.  Me, I try to follow the first class example set by one of the Guild founders - Geoffrey Budworth - promote and support the Guild to exhaustion and make some income out the the field if at all possible - cheers Geoffrey.

Derek