International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => New Knot Investigations => Topic started by: tsik_lestat on September 16, 2021, 02:01:31 PM

Title: Munter noose
Post by: tsik_lestat on September 16, 2021, 02:01:31 PM
I have stabilised this basic knotting formation as bowline/anti-bowline, now it's time to form it on the standing part of the rope for a TIB noose development.

I think it's super easy to form a crossing knot and a nipping turn and feed both endings through this munter, two wrap, nipping channel.

This stable crossing knot state component, also provides an access point to interact with the nub at peak loads.

I could have tossed it in some other thread, but i think it's  very good  to deserve its own thread.

To be continued with some more close relative, adjustable, derivatives...
Title: Re: Munter noose
Post by: tsik_lestat on September 23, 2021, 03:20:00 PM
The first two images, correspond to a familiar to me noose, which can be derived from the original post's structure, just by alternating the crossing knot's state component.

It is not the first time that is demonstrated, but this time as a genuine equivalent of the previous knot, with just nub manipulation.

I think one should focus to its anti-blocking system, where the returning eye leg component, " bites" its continuation, resulting to a manipulable, easy to loosen collar/nub at peak strains.

The third, equivalent, transformed, profile C, derivative, is generated by performing some additional collar flips to whichever of the previous profiles (third fourth image), which appears to be, so far, an original  TIB, noose configuration.
Title: Re: Munter noose
Post by: tsik_lestat on September 27, 2021, 03:50:18 PM
Now, let's showcase, how the OP's basic munter formation is correlated with some known, very good bowlines, including some eye manipulation maneuvers.

According to the first image, just pull munter's returning eye leg component. Then rearrange the two ends and straighten the SP component in order to get first image's lowermost, noose configuration.

Pulling the returning eye leg once again, of the previous structure, John Smith's, Dan Lehman's bowline is formed, (second image), which is also described in the bowline analysis paper by Mr. Gommers (on page 57).

The next step is to go by the two following links, where the great Alan Lee, highlights the transformational relation of John Smith's/Dan Lehman's bowline, with Xarax's ampersand and Scott's locked bowline respectively.

Link 1 : https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6362.0 (https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6362.0)

Link 2 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWx8NiTfwrI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWx8NiTfwrI)

So, i am comfident to claim that there is aTIB pathway connecting these three knots or even more  ;).
Title: Re: Munter noose
Post by: SS369 on September 27, 2021, 04:53:01 PM
Now, let's showcase, how the OP's basic munter formation is correlated with some known, very good bowlines, including some eye manipulation maneuvers.

According to the first image, just pull munter's returning eye leg component. Then rearrange the two ends and straighten the SP component in order to get first image's lowermost, noose configuration.

Pulling the returning eye leg once again, of the previous structure, John Smith's, Dan Lehman's bowline is formed, (second image), which is also described in the bowline analysis paper by Mr. Gommers (on page 57).

The next step is to go by the two following links, where the great Alan Lee, highlights the transformational relation of John Smith's/Dan Lehman's bowline, with Xarax's ampersand and Scott's locked bowline respectively.

Link 1 : https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6362.0 (https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6362.0)

Link 2 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWx8NiTfwrI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWx8NiTfwrI)

So, i am comfident to claim that there is aTIB pathway connecting these three knots or even more  ;).

Good day tsik_lestat.

Just a point of interest. The third photo depicts the ?Scott?s locked bowline? although it is not the one I offered in the original thread ?simple lock for the Bowline?.
It would be helpful to view both sides of offerings.

SS
Title: Re: Munter noose
Post by: tsik_lestat on September 27, 2021, 08:09:47 PM
Now, let's showcase, how the OP's basic munter formation is correlated with some known, very good bowlines, including some eye manipulation maneuvers.

According to the first image, just pull munter's returning eye leg component. Then rearrange the two ends and straighten the SP component in order to get first image's lowermost, noose configuration.

Pulling the returning eye leg once again, of the previous structure, John Smith's, Dan Lehman's bowline is formed, (second image), which is also described in the bowline analysis paper by Mr. Gommers (on page 57).

The next step is to go by the two following links, where the great Alan Lee, highlights the transformational relation of John Smith's/Dan Lehman's bowline, with Xarax's ampersand and Scott's locked bowline respectively.

Link 1 : https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6362.0 (https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6362.0)

Link 2 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWx8NiTfwrI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWx8NiTfwrI)

So, i am comfident to claim that there is aTIB pathway connecting these three knots or even more  ;).

Good day tsik_lestat.

Just a point of interest. The third photo depicts the ?Scott?s locked bowline? although it is not the one I offered in the original thread ?simple lock for the Bowline?.
It would be helpful to view both sides of offerings.

SS

Thank you Scott, your comment is quite meaningful, i think i should provide a clarification.

Actually, the proper moniker for the third image knot would be the reverse of Scott's locked TIB bowline, as i had pointed out in Alan Lee's thread.

However, if i had not visually discriminated between the two ends (SP, tail), you wouldn't had noticed the difference, unless you had tied the knot. Just as well, i usually do not follow this tactic :).

So, for your original TIB knot, you have to load it from the tail side.

Furthermore, if i was to include your original TIB Scott's locked bowline, the transformation cycle should have gone like this......

Reverse munter noose ==> reverse John Smith's/ Dan Lehman's bowline ==> Scott's locked TIB bowline ==> rerverse Xarax's ampersand bowline.

As you realize, the reverse variants of the previous cycle have less or none practical value, (except yours of course), therefore i am highlighting the following transformation sequence.....

Munter noose ==> John Smith's/Dan Lehman's bowline ==> reverse Scott's locked TIB bowline ==> Xarax's ampersand bowline.

It appears that the TIB version of your knot features the EEL property. Have you ever tried it in reverse?
Title: Re: Munter noose
Post by: SS369 on September 28, 2021, 03:26:21 PM
Good day tsik_lestat.

Thank you for the clarification, it did need to be done.

Yes, I have tried the reverse of it and have a sample around somewhere. I try to keep small samples of most ?new? and unique knots. I?m afraid that I am not organized with them in my ?knotshop? though unfortunately.

I do try reverse loading on most or the one?s I deem suitable, but only if I remember. ;-)

Either end loading is a valid task to investigate, but I find I don?t use tiable in the bight very much.

Thank you for your submissions.

SS