International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Practical Knots => Topic started by: asemery on October 15, 2020, 11:40:03 PM

Title: Little Sister Bowline
Post by: asemery on October 15, 2020, 11:40:03 PM
Little Sister Bowline
zipper pull, lanyard  .  .  .  .

(https://i.imgur.com/0yh71wV.jpg)

Little Sister Bowline Tutorial (https://www.instructables.com/Little-Sister-Bowline/)
Title: Re: Little Sister Bowline
Post by: tsik_lestat on October 20, 2020, 11:17:48 AM
It took me quite a while to decode this knot structure, and i believe i have figured it out. Firstly, i had the impression that it was a double Eskino bowline, (anti-bowline), but that's clearly not the case.

Then, i recalled that Alan Lee had presented a bowline structure like this one, stabilized in a more conventional way, as a proper bowline (not eskimo).

So, this would be an Eskimo variation of the bowline presented here: Link: https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5383.msg36082#msg36082 (https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5383.msg36082#msg36082).

Very stable and secure structure, as the double coil nipping area firmly clamps the running end, but i would be sceptic to load it heavily in this Eskimo configuration.

Now, which one was published first, that i don't know.

Many thanks for the share!!
Title: Re: Little Sister Bowline
Post by: asemery on October 20, 2020, 04:42:45 PM
It took me quite a while to decode this knot structure, and i believe i have figured it out. Firstly, i had the impression that it was a double Eskino bowline, (anti-bowline), but that's clearly not the case.

Then, i recalled that Alan Lee had presented a bowline structure like this one, stabilized in a more conventional way, as a proper bowline (not eskimo).

So, this would be an Eskimo variation of the bowline presented here: Link: https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5383.msg36082#msg36082 (https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5383.msg36082#msg36082).

Very stable and secure structure, as the double coil nipping area firmly clamps the running end, but i would be sceptic to load it heavily in this Eskimo configuration.

Now, which one was published first, that i don't know.

Many thanks for the share!!
Thank you for the feedback.
The "Knotting Maters" article that described the little sister bowline was from 2007..  Tony
Title: Re: Little Sister Bowline
Post by: Dan_Lehman on October 20, 2020, 09:02:18 PM

The "Knotting Matters" article that described the little sister bowline was from 2007..
... and has both an issue # and page #s,
neatly cited in the form <kmNNN:NN>,
which I keep urging upon the editor(s)
vs. more cumbersome "Knotting Matters
#NNN, ... ".

--dl*
====
Title: Re: Little Sister Bowline
Post by: asemery on October 20, 2020, 09:31:31 PM
Issue #94
March 2007
Page 33
Title: Re: Little Sister Bowline
Post by: Dan_Lehman on October 22, 2020, 09:20:43 PM
Issue #94
March 2007
Page 33
Thanks!  So, at km094:33 we see one of many
Owen Nuttall displays of maybe-novel knots.
THIS one is essentially the corresponding eye
knot to the double Lapp bend/ends-joint but
w/inferior orientation : the tail's path should
be reversed.

Owen's remark about his there-following, stopper
knot being forcibly loosenable should be somewhat
apt for the above eye knot as well --it IS for the
ends-joint--, but the loading by the returning
eye leg will add a tightness to overcome.


--dl*
====
Title: Re: Little Sister Bowline
Post by: Dan_Lehman on October 23, 2020, 10:28:21 PM
It took me quite a while to decode this knot structure, and i believe i have figured it out.
[ALMOST!]
...
So, this would be an Eskimo variation of the bowline presented here: Link: https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5383.msg36082#msg36082 (https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5383.msg36082#msg36082).
To Alan's knot, you need to swap SPart & outgoing eye leg.
(Again, it's a sort of loop-correlate to the inferior Lapp Bend.)

Thanks for that URLink, though, which, naturally, spawned
some further ideas and ... another <darn> knot to sketch!

 :-\
Title: Re: Little Sister Bowline
Post by: tsik_lestat on October 27, 2020, 01:56:12 PM
It took me quite a while to decode this knot structure, and i believe i have figured it out.
[ALMOST!]
...
So, this would be an Eskimo variation of the bowline presented here: Link: https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5383.msg36082#msg36082 (https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5383.msg36082#msg36082).
To Alan's knot, you need to swap SPart & outgoing eye leg.

Now, that statement does seem like a good reason for me to attach the "anti-" prothesis, in front of the word bowline, in order to describe Mr. Nuttal's paradigm, doesn't it?

However, i think you are refering to a more straightforward correlation (bowline/anti-bowline), involving the mirror knot structures i have attached.

In particular, Nuttal's structure presented by asemery, is associated with the first image, while Lee's structure, in the above URL link, is associated with the second image.

These four decent, different loading profiles, are developed based on the same idea of the two coil nipping mechanism.

(Again, it's a sort of loop-correlate to the inferior Lapp Bend.)

The returning eye leg, does not pass through both nipping loops at its first insertion through the nipping structure, before capturing the SPart (or the outgoing eye leg). If it did, then with a proper swap of the nipping loops the double bowline would had been formed. That's basically the reason  i think that these structures feature a more direct correlation with the round turn bowline.

The double lapp bend, makes sense too, as you correctly point out.

Thanks for the constructive feedback.

Any chances to see this sketched darn knot? ::)