International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Practical Knots => Topic started by: gRider on August 16, 2020, 09:56:05 PM

Title: knot id
Post by: gRider on August 16, 2020, 09:56:05 PM
was hoping the experts here could help me identify this knot.  It is a line tied to a centerboard on a sailboat.  the working end (bottom of pic) is just threaded back through the eyelette and srcrewed down onto the centerboard.  The standing end goes to the winch that raised the centerboard. 
what is the name of this knot?
is there a more secure option?
Any help greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: SS369 on August 16, 2020, 11:37:39 PM
Good day gRider and welcome.

To me it looks like a Cleat Hitch, best I can tell from the photo.
Why do need something more secure?

SS
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: gRider on August 17, 2020, 02:06:27 AM
thanks for the welcome.  That one held for twelve years and is still going strong, so I guess I really dont need anything stronger.
Interestingly, a instructional document from the manufacturer says "Run the line through the eye bolt and tie off using either a noose knot or a Bolin on a Bit (a self tightening Bolin knot)."  I can't figure out exactly what either one of those are.  A simple noose knot doesn't seem like enough, and if "bolin on a bit" is a misspelled "bowline on a bite" then that doesn't make sense to me.
whatever it is it has to be a knot that the loop can bell pulled tight on the eylette after the knot is tied because of the cramped space.  I guess thats why they say noose knot, but Im sure they must be talking about something more secure than a simple noose knot.
I am leaning toward a buntline hitch.
any opinions?

thanks again!
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: SS369 on August 17, 2020, 03:25:10 AM
Hi again.

Any chance for a better, clearer picture? I am thinking that I may have given you a wrong name.
At first glance the picture reminded me of a cleat that the rope was wrapped around.
Looking forward to getting you a correct answer.

SS
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: gRider on August 17, 2020, 04:02:59 AM
Thanks for that. That's the best I can do because it's down in the centerboard cassette.  I'll try to preserve it when I cut it off tommorow and post a pic in the sunlight. Thanks again!
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: gRider on August 17, 2020, 05:22:08 PM
Thanks for that. That's the best I can do because it's down in the centerboard cassette.  I'll try to preserve it when I cut it off tommorow and post a pic in the sunlight. Thanks again!
so not sure if this is any better, but I tried to get more light to it for a better shot.  I probably wont cut the rope off for a couple more days.

Title: Re: knot id
Post by: SS369 on August 17, 2020, 06:46:49 PM
If you can raise the centerboard up and snap a picture before you cut the knot off, that will be helpful to see more of the rope?s path.

Regardless of what knot is there, there will definitely be a good, secure replacement knot to be had.

Though, inquiring mind(s) still want to know...
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: gRider on August 17, 2020, 07:19:38 PM
Believe it or not that's as close to the inspection port as the knot will get.  The board gets pushed down and the knot travels back to the position you see in the pic.
I'm in skinny water, so I'm waiting on high tide tomorrow to push it down again and cut the knot off
Do do you think a buntline is a good choice?
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: SS369 on August 17, 2020, 08:27:28 PM
IMO, tying a hitch in that narrow space and the given conditions will be a challenge. Hence the instructions you have of tying a running bowline was probably given.
Any secure noose will work.
Threading the line through the eye bolt may be the biggest challenge. Perhaps use a piece of wire to drag the rope through might be helpful.

If it were me, I probably would use a Halyard hitch. Here's a link to it, and useful website. https://www.animatedknots.com/halyard-hitch-knot (https://www.animatedknots.com/halyard-hitch-knot)

Personally, I would leave the tail longer than shown and tuck it through the eye after tightening.    If you can get to it.
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: Dan_Lehman on August 18, 2020, 12:17:42 AM
As best I can discern of the knotted rope,
you might have a round turn & 2 half-hitches.

IMO, the clearest part is going backwards,
from the tail reeved through the eye bolt,
leading back to the FINISHING half-hitch
at the top (left side of image) --which rules
out the buntline, and suggests the above.

One cannot see the "round turn" part,
buried under the tail and presumed first
half-hitch (which might show just in the
small bit on left side parallel to outer HH).

A cleat hitch is nowhere here but in some ropey
shapes, mimicking the absent cleat.

(You might try just CROPPING YOUR PHOTO
so that what uses the precious bytes on this
forum is mostly knot vs. mostly not (knot) !!   ::)

And, "cutting" ?!  Surely you might find something
long & thin & firm enough to tease out the tail from
the metal and then untie that not-very-tight (-looking)
half-hitch to reveal, IN SITU, the mystery below!

As for
"a noose knot or a Bolin on a Bit (a self tightening Bolin knot)",
that indeed is some wording to work out!
  (let's sub "bight" vice "bit" or "bite")
Your critique of the latter is right on --gotta wonder what
the writer was thinking--, but RT & 2HH is a noose, by
which *I* mean "a knotted structure that surrounds
an object and hitches to itself.  The 2HH = clove hitch
and that can slide down noose-like to close to the object
(often, though, just getting closer to it).


--dl*
====
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: gRider on August 19, 2020, 03:08:11 PM
Thanks so much to both of you for your input.  This is a slow process.  I got one screw out today.  Have to order a longer driver extension to get the others.  Then Ill pull the working end out of the eye and post a picture here in case there's any interest.  Thanks again!
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: roo on August 19, 2020, 03:34:08 PM
thanks for the welcome.  That one held for twelve years and is still going strong, so I guess I really dont need anything stronger.
Interestingly, a instructional document from the manufacturer says "Run the line through the eye bolt and tie off using either a noose knot or a Bolin on a Bit (a self tightening Bolin knot)."  I can't figure out exactly what either one of those are.  A simple noose knot doesn't seem like enough, and if "bolin on a bit" is a misspelled "bowline on a bite" then that doesn't make sense to me.
whatever it is it has to be a knot that the loop can bell pulled tight on the eylette after the knot is tied because of the cramped space.  I guess thats why they say noose knot, but Im sure they must be talking about something more secure than a simple noose knot.
I am leaning toward a buntline hitch.
any opinions?

thanks again!

I recommend this for a secure, noose-like hitch:

https://notableknotindex.webs.com/gnathitch.html
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: gRider on August 19, 2020, 05:56:22 PM
OK I had another go at it and got it done . . . all without cutting.  Here are the pictures.
roo thanks for the recommendation and link. Ill have a look.

Title: Re: knot id
Post by: Dan_Lehman on August 19, 2020, 10:28:57 PM
OK I had another go at it and got it done . . . all without cutting.  Here are the pictures.
Wow, what resolution are you shooting with --a load?
(for the photos are so small even when enlarged!)
Thanks for the exam-without-damaging taking apart
of the knot!

Looks to me like a round turn and one half-hitch
to finish; I don't see the space for there to be
a *first* HHitch.

Thanks,
--dl*
====
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: gRider on August 20, 2020, 04:12:43 PM
thanks for all the replies.
interestingly when I try to log in to this forum on chrome it says I am banned.  It was working before. And I can log in fine on Msft Edge. Thought I had accidentally stepped on some toes somehow there for a minute. :)
Title: Re: knot id
Post by: gRider on September 13, 2020, 11:31:15 PM
just circling back to say thanks again, and let yall know I did go with the buntline knot, although Im sure any of the suggestion would have worked fine.  Glad I ran into this group . . . yall even inspired me to make a monkey fist key ring for my mailbox key I keep losing. :)
Here's the result