International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Practical Knots => Topic started by: Sawgrass on January 11, 2020, 04:35:26 AM

Title: How to get tight knot in 1" manila rope
Post by: Sawgrass on January 11, 2020, 04:35:26 AM
I have purchased some 1" diameter manila rope that I'd like to use to hang a porch daybed from. The rope is very stiff, and I'm not sure that I am going to be able to get my knots to pull tight. Any suggestions on how to make thee rope more pliable / supple so that it will be easier to tie? Is there something I can soak it in briefly that will make it easier to tie without damaging it? Thanks!
Title: Re: How to get tight knot in 1" manila rope
Post by: alpineer on January 11, 2020, 06:30:31 AM
I don't have any familiarity with what you're attempting, but I don't think your going to find a suitable knot for your intended purpose. What comes to my mind is to separate the lays and make an eye splice. Another option may be to use a spliced stopper knot. Whipping Seizing
an eye also comes to mind.
Title: Re: How to get tight knot in 1" manila rope
Post by: SS369 on January 11, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
A couple of ideas for you Sawgrass.

One: Soak it in water and then tie an overhand knot, although a lot of Manila rope is treated and won't absorb anything quickly. But, one can tie an overhand knot and work it tight using hands and fett.

Two: Unlay the major strands and tie a Manrope knot or backsplice.

Three: Unlay the major strands and tie knots on the individual bundles, say for instance overhand knots on each of the three strands. But any stopper knot will do.

Hope this helps or leads you to a solution.

Title: Re: How to get tight knot in 1" manila rope
Post by: KC on January 11, 2020, 02:13:28 PM
Devil's Advocate:
Perhaps don't have to pull as tight with 2x Friction Co-efficient and 2x surface area of Natural vs. synthetic to the same sum of load control (or more)
Across time, ABoK notes Round Turn (RT) +2HH's (Half Hitches) in lieu of Anchor Hitch for stiffness worries so this worry is a contender.
Natural ropes can have strong smells building w/o air movement/in closed porch.
Really, fold and 3-4 strong seizing points spaced, then taped ends to further seize should be all that is needed
>>parallel to wire rope with clamps/spacings; only softer seizings against rope than steel cable..
Hammock side: for looks would consider suggested backsplice or even eye
Counter-intuitive Brion Toss 3strand splicing point: unravel to flat ribbons rather than faithfully to native round cylinders
>>then reeve the flat ribbons thru solid leg with less deformation for better strength/efficiency AND mated friction area surface contacts...
This flattening to ribbon would continue around host mount to be less deformed on that arc for stronger like flat rope/webbing on arc  less leveraged efficiency loss than round rope
>>flat doesn't have leverged distance away from host mount like round on the deformed axis, so round is leveraged harder to less efficiency than flat on STATIC arc
>>Favor thimble usage here if eye splice
Same seize/tape final ends as mechanical positive stop  (and smooth finish) against creepage as below:
Anchor/support side:(perhaps easier)
Would consider simple half(s)and seize small thread thru(or stopper); spaced after and tape over even, especially confident after RT on host mount of ring/hook etc.
>>i like SPACED seize rather than freebird or stopper, as SPACED seize doesn't rear end rest of knot carriage to deform, thus more holds knot frame square to purpose properly (at least from rear to give front face best chance to do same)
As long as 1st Half as interface is maintained and Bitter End can't breach backwards thru whatever gauntlet, should be ok is really all..
Common imagery for me:
Use 2nd HH as keeper after simple Turn in case so much force etc. 1st HH tries to pull out/walk off job
Use 2nd HH as keeper after RT, sometimes in case so little force after 3arc turns of RT ; 1st HH tempted to fall out
In any case 2 phase lock and keeper, like hitch pin and cotter key seem best.
>>Simplest single Turn on anchor/host mount and single HH lock and seize as keeper should be fine if HH allowed to seat hard to host mount especially as nip
>>Upgrading to RT on host and/or 2HH chaser even more so (thread seize after and tape,unless want to make project out of fancy seizing/whipping; probably best lock and finished look)
Force flow will be downward, so more cross-axis/ horizontal rope is in actual loaded usage to extrude vertical support column function squarely against gravity
>> the harder tensioned rope will be pulling at knots and greater side force on support anchors.