International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Chit Chat => Topic started by: maxinea on November 17, 2006, 05:20:45 PM

Title: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: maxinea on November 17, 2006, 05:20:45 PM
Does anyone know any good traditional fender makers in the Northwestern area?

Replies appreciated

Max  
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: DerekSmith on November 17, 2006, 05:50:20 PM
Hi Maxinea and welcome,

Northwestern area of where?

Derek
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: squarerigger on November 17, 2006, 09:20:17 PM
Hi Maxinea,

If you are in NW USA, try Dennis Armstrong in Seattle; if in NW England, try Colin Jones.  I am in the SW USA and probably too far away, but I make them also.


Lindsey
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: Willeke on November 18, 2006, 12:08:58 AM
NW England?
How about Chester, Cheshire?

dwfenders@yahoo.co.uk

Willeke
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: KnotNow! on November 19, 2006, 12:15:51 AM
Dennis Armstrong operates under his shop name "The Knotted Line" and has advertisments in Wooden Boat Magazine.  Colin Jones has a very nice book, "The DIY Book of Fenders, available through the IGKT guild supplies.  I am in the PNW USA, I do make fenders,  but my plate is too full at present, however would like to email back and forth on this topic if you wish.  Good luck.  I am sure you will find what you need.
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: maxinea on November 20, 2006, 11:22:41 AM
 North western area of the UK, Does anyone have any contact details for any food traditional fender makers in this area of the UK?
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: Fairlead on November 20, 2006, 03:21:42 PM
The one Willeke gave you above - D W Fenders (David Walker) Saltney in Chester - is your best bet

Gordon
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: KnotNow! on November 20, 2006, 04:39:27 PM
Great fun, eh what?  With shipping cost getting to be a small part of the total cost then good craft work may be the same at USA, PNW or England NW, so the cost looks the same?  It seems that I can send stuff worldwide for what I call "chump change" but it seems that the shipping from other nations is a burden.  Some checking about may save us a happy dollar.
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: Dave Walker on November 20, 2006, 11:39:01 PM
I am a traditional fender maker, can I help. I live  near Chester, North west England. I have been making canal boat fenders for about 15 years.
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: DerekSmith on November 21, 2006, 11:29:51 AM
Hi Maxinea,

Try this site http://indefatigable.pbwiki.com/Ropework .  The contact is a guy called Richard (a marine engineer), he lives the life and works off his narrow boat (which I think he built).

I have some of his ropework and fenders and they are excellent quality.
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: JG on December 13, 2006, 01:22:22 AM
Hi

Does the fender maker have to be in the NW specifically?  If not try Pete @ Tradline rope and fenders based at Braunston Northamptonshire.  Most will agree that tradlines fenders are reputably the best on the waterways.  Have a look at his web www.tradline.co.uk or call his workshop on 01788891761.   ;D

John
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: jasonr575 on December 17, 2006, 12:26:10 PM
Are these fender practical?  Do they chaff quickly or are they long lasting and worth the time and $.  I am on the connecticut river in the us. 
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: squarerigger on December 17, 2006, 05:49:42 PM
HI Jason
Traditional fenders are normally reserved for those who have traditional vessels where the level of care is higher than a normal boater who leaves their vessel unattended for a while.  Care is needed because the manila line or hemp from which many fenders are made does wear out from the effects of chafe and the effects of water.  When the fenders are made in cotton of course the situation is far worse with regard to chafe and rot.  If the covering is of polyester line, it will last far longer than the manila, hemp or cotton, but then, looks are not improved as much as with perhaps a traditional organic line.  I guess the question is more of "how much chafe do you want it to take and how much is cost a factor?"  Traditional fenders are, after all, meant for traditional vessels using traditional materials which were expected to chafe but look good during the process. ;D
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: jasonr575 on December 17, 2006, 08:27:24 PM
I only leave my boat for 5 days at the most, i was considering these for when i visit a new marina to show off a little,  I was hoping to try and make a set myself but hear it is still expensive.   i was considering buying the book for sale by the igkt .  does anybody have it or read it and can give me some advice,  the book is "how to make rope fenders"
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: Willeke on December 17, 2006, 09:27:56 PM
How expencive it gets depends on how much you have to pay for the rope.
If you have access to used rope that still has some live in it it only costs time, if you have to pay new rope it will get dear very fast.
The book the IGKT has for sale tells you about all you need to know, but if you have questions left we are glad to answer them.

Willeke
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: JG on December 17, 2006, 10:53:52 PM
Hi Jason

You don’t state in your posting what type of fenders you are looking for bow, stern or side fenders???  I suppose how robust the fender is will depend on the rope that they are made from as well as how well they are constructed and materials used.  You will have to take into consideration the waterway in which you cruse is it fresh water or salt water.  A good all round material is coir good in both fresh and salt-water environments and the abrasion qualities of coir are excellent and relatively inexpensive to buy. There a quite a few sellers of coir fenders around  in the UK at the moment have a look on ebay and go to ebay shops and type in carnwath rope and fender company they have a good range of nice coir and other fenders for sale.  Hope this is of some help.

J
 ;D
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: WebAdmin on December 17, 2006, 11:14:32 PM
Doesn't a lot depend on the type of boat the fenders are to be used on?    If it's a painted or varnished boat, wood or fibreglass, a fender made of natural fibres tends to pick up debris from the quayside and  will act as an abrasive.  Therefore, those ugly plastic inflatable fenders do have their uses, unfortunately.    You don't say what type of boat you have, Jason.

Lesley
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: JG on December 18, 2006, 01:25:21 AM
Very good point Lesley!!!

I have seen the "ugly plastic inflatable fenders " covered with half hitches to produce a very convinsing and quite an atractive fender in the past.  This may be a good starting point for someone who wants to start making fenders as the core is often the most difficult part to get right.

j
 ;)
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: jasonr575 on December 18, 2006, 07:28:39 AM
Thanks!!   I think i will order the book and give it  a try. 
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: Fairlead on December 18, 2006, 03:38:31 PM
Well done Jason - I am sure you will enjoy making them.
Two tips that I picked up and would like to pass on:
1.  Make a model employing exactly the same techniques, but in small line, before you tackle the real thing.
2.  Do ensure that it has some give and is able to squash a little - a hard solid rope fender (like some people make) will put a nice dent in you boat rather than take the blow.

Gordon
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: WebAdmin on December 18, 2006, 05:23:20 PM
And another thing, Jeff says - ensure that the rope you are using is dry, then your fender will firm up nicely.   If you do use damp or wet rope, your fender will end up with 'brewer's droop' when dry.   :D
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: jasonr575 on December 18, 2006, 08:07:09 PM
Wow you guys are great!! Thanks for all the info.  For those of you who asked questions this is what the fender will be going on:

I have a 37 ft morgan sailboat.  1976, Solid fiberglass hull,  Will be used in salt and brackish water on the connecticut river in the U.S.  Boat weighs about 9 tons.  Has a thick black rubber rub rail built in but it is up high.  I had the boat at a mooring last summer and am not sure wether i will be at a mooring or a slip in the spring.  These fenders will probably not be my fenders used at my home slip ( if there is one).  Will be used when going somewhere (to another port).  Basically for show.  i have inflatable fenders for when i am  not around. (although i do like the idea of covering those fenders as previously mentioned)   I really like the look of the rope fenders and thought it might be fun to make a few myself for the boat.  I like the look of hemp but was hoping for something more durable like poly.  I am in the us so rope in the uK is not practical for me.  There is however west marine, defender and boaters world in my area. and also several chain hardware stores like home depot and lowels.    I was looking mostly for side fenders but a nice bow fender for the occasion when i am pulling into a slip would be really nice. 

     I am not a master at knotcraft by any means so i appreciate any and all advice.   I  plan on getting the book mentioned previously.  But if anybody had any clear and easy instructions, plans, pics or diagrams they could share that would be greatly appreciated. 
     Thanks for the great responses again and i look forward to more conversations with all of you.
jason
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: jasonr575 on December 18, 2006, 08:11:40 PM
is there another name for "coir"  i have never heard of that.
jason
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: squarerigger on December 18, 2006, 09:10:28 PM
Coir is coconut fiber

Have a great time with your fender making!

I have a 27 ft Morgan and mine would definitely not do well with rope fenders, but I know of others with a 37 ft Morgan - very solid construction!  Be sure to mark the places on the hull (or at least know where they are) where the bulkheads are situated so that you don't put a fender where there is little to no real support! ;D

Lindsey
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: Willeke on December 18, 2006, 09:59:25 PM
Jason,
If you like the look of hemp but want to get the quality of modern fibres, look for the hemp look-alikes.
There are several brands that have the kind of rope, all under different names.
And there is a lot of difference in how 'hemp' they look. It pays to have a good look around before you buy large quantities.

Willeke
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: jasonr575 on December 19, 2006, 04:44:17 AM
i am curious as to why you say your boat will not do well with rope fenders?
Title: Re: Traditional Fender Makers?
Post by: squarerigger on December 19, 2006, 05:58:59 AM
There are three principal reasons why: first, the only reinforcement to the hull is in the sandwich forward of the bulkhead by the head where the first four or five feet of the hull in the bow are reinforced with balsa as a core.  The fiberglass to the remainder of the hull will "oilcan" or produce ripples or waves along its length if there is too much load on one point - this is a racing hull, not a cruising hull and the fiberglass layup is remarkably thin.  Second, the hull shape is such that a fender hanging straight down from the sheer will not touch the hull when the vessel is in the slip.  As such, when the vessel moves laterally with a wave or swell, there is a tendency for the hull to suffer from dynamic impact and that needs to be spread as widely as possible.  A vertical rope fender would not answer well to this, unless it were very wide (we could always lace two together!) and that is impractical on the basis of weight on the sheer.  A horizontal fender would work well, but would tend to droop into the salt water and wear out very quickly, apart from having problems with finding non-abrading suspension points (it is only a 27 ft hull length!).  Third, and this is not insurmountable, the hull is painted with a very weak paint.  A rope fender rolling or rubbing would quickly strip that paint and start to work through the gelcoat.  Until we replace the paint with a substantial epoxy coat (which we do not plan on doing for a couple of years) with more hard-wearing characteristics, we choose not to use traditional materials like manila or coir, both of which are very scratchy to the paint surface - it would be like using a Scotchbrite fender covering!  Now, if we had a more substantial hull such as yours or a wood hull, varnished or oiled, it would be more appropriate and would undoubtedly be worth the extra care it would take to keep the hull in great shape while protecting it from the (concrete) dock sides.  Meanwhile, we use multiple semi-inflated rubber condoms!  An expedient choice until we can do things (perhaps like getting one of those free boats in Classic Boat magazine?!) that will improve our situation.  :D