International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Practical Knots => Topic started by: Twine on May 13, 2015, 05:20:56 PM

Title: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: Twine on May 13, 2015, 05:20:56 PM
Knot Rigger asked me to make this method public. It is my method for tying the Zeppelin Bend. It is foolprough enough for me to be able to tie it even with my eyes closed.

The principle is that I make sure that every part of the knot is in a fixed and unmoveable position while I tie the knot. So while tying, every part of the knot is gripped, nothing is hanging loose.

1. Grip the end of one rope between the fore and middle fingers like in picture 1.

2. Secure the standing end to your hand with a Blackwall hitch around the thumb (picture 2)

Continued in next post

Title: Re: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: Twine on May 13, 2015, 05:24:48 PM
A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend part the 2nd

3. take the other rope around the thumb (picture 3)

4. and push it up through the first loop and through its own loop (picture 4)

(Continued in next post)

Title: Re: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: Twine on May 13, 2015, 05:28:33 PM
A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend - the finish

5. Take the end previously held between the fingers and push it down beside the thumb, through the previous loops

6. Pull on the standing parts to dress the Zeppelin Bend

Done.
Title: Re: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: xarax on May 13, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
   Perhaps you should also describe the opposite chirality / handedness of the rope when it turns around your thumb the first and the second time...
Title: Re: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: Twine on May 13, 2015, 05:45:59 PM
Nah, picture 3 shows it well enough, I think.
Title: Re: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: xarax on May 13, 2015, 05:57:59 PM
  It shows it, but the user should better memorize the difference, because he can easily place the Tail End segment "under" the Standing End segment. He will not carry a picture of the method with him all the time !  :)
Title: Re: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: Twine on May 13, 2015, 06:03:14 PM
I think he will notice at once that there was a mistake, if he makes one.
Title: Re: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: knot rigger on May 13, 2015, 07:56:15 PM
Thanks Twine

  :D
Title: Re: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: Z on May 14, 2015, 09:02:32 AM
This is basically the b-q method.
Title: Re: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: xarax on May 14, 2015, 09:43:09 AM
This is basically the b-q method.

   No, it is not. It involves the palm and the fingers of the knot tyer, and a certain sequence of moves, which can not be "reversed", as the b-q method can ( because the b-q method is symmetric, in relation to the two links ).
Title: Re: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: Z on May 14, 2015, 03:48:53 PM
I clearly see a b and a q in there. So, it's basically the b-q method for me. In fact, I did not tie this correctly until I identified the b-q.

If I didn't tie this for a year, I would forget the hand movements.  (That happened to me with the Carrick Bend.) If I didn't tie the b-q method for 10 years, I would still be able to firgure it out quickly.

Anyway, thanks Twine for the pics.
Title: Re: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: Tex on May 14, 2015, 04:03:20 PM
This is like arguing about when a knot *IS* a different knot.  It's a useless argument.  Yes there are b's and q's there and in most methods if you look hard enough you can see them.  This is A b and q method if you want to see it that way, but it's a distinct one and I don't think that's the useful element of this method.

I think it's a useful set of motions and I actually agree with Xarax in that sense.  If you follow the MOTIONS you can't really mess it up, but some people do better with geometries than with motions probably.  In this case you could mess it up by geometry, with the wrong tail on top or bottom (you wouldn't get a knot). I think if you tie a knot often, motion methods get easier and geometry methods don't, but I still use geometry usually at first. I can get confused about the motions someday if I don't know the geometry first. 

I posted it elsewhere but the discussion correctly moved here and I'll post again, not steal Twine's thunder but just to add information for anyone looking here and show what I like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O7PgfkqskA


I can't see how it could get easier than that.

Somewhere I found a more clear depiction of the second motion but this one is more realistic of how the motion will become with a little practice.  I like to put my little finger between the standing ends to keep them from getting twisted.  It helps in the second half.
Title: Re: A method of tying the Zeppelin Bend
Post by: Sweeney on May 14, 2015, 04:59:30 PM
An interesting method but using fingers in say 18mm rope is at best awkward.