International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Practical Knots => Topic started by: squarebanksalaska on April 24, 2013, 08:12:27 AM

Title: new lifting hitch
Post by: squarebanksalaska on April 24, 2013, 08:12:27 AM
Hey there fellow Knot Tyers,
   My name is Andrew Foley, and I am a carpenter and I deal with lifting things with rope on a fairly regular basis.  I have been experimenting with different lifting hitches for some time now, and I think that I may be onto a new knot.  I have attached a PDF of the steps to tie it.  It is super easy to tie.  I have used it to lift pipes at work, and at home I have attached it to a metal broom handle and had my 7 year old (75 pound) son swing from it with no movement.  It seems to hold weight going both up and down, and whether you tug on either the working end or standing end.  Whether it is a new knot or not, it seems to have some pretty useful qualities.  Any info would be appreciated.  Thanks much.

  Keep on truckin'

Title: Re: new lifting hitch
Post by: X1 on April 24, 2013, 04:55:39 PM
   I believe that this hitch is not very different from a multi-wraps Double Cow hitch (1),(2) - although the way the standing end and the tail are secured ( by being entangled the one within the other, inside the main central/bight ) looks more like the similar found at the Andalusian hitch (3),(4).
   It is similar with a multi-wrap Prusik or Gersik (5), but it can also be considered as a compound knot : two counter-rotating climbing hitches arranged the one after the other on the same pole.

Title: Re: new lifting hitch
Post by: knot4u on April 24, 2013, 07:19:26 PM
Thank you for the pics!  As X1 mentioned, that looks like a relative of a multi-wrap cow.

This happens to be a hot topic on this forum with plenty of opinionated viewpoints.  Generally, I have found that if you put enough wraps on a friction hitch, just about anything will work.  The challenge comes into play when you have limited space on the pole or when you can only do a limited number of wraps.  Anyway, here more threads for friction hitches:

Title: Re: new lifting hitch
Post by: squarebanksalaska on April 26, 2013, 08:43:28 AM
Wow!  Thanks much you guys for the time that you took.  To tell the truth, I am a pretty poor knot tyer.  I have probably learned more about knot tying from reading these posts than I have ever known.  It is amazing how many knots are out there, and even more amazing that there are still knots to find.  My terminology may be a little shaky, so bear with me.  I started with wrapping the bight instead of the working end, as a way to get more wraps in less steps, and basically stumbled on this knot by accident.  I had no idea whether the counter rotating columns would help or just fall apart.  But then I tried tugging on it, and it tightened and held, so I slowly loosened it until even I could figure out how to tie it.  I was trying this because as a poor knot tyer, I need something that has few steps, and because lifting heavy things is dangerous, it is nice for me to be able to remember it easily. 

I tried an extra wrap from what I have pictured, and it will hold me (240 pounds) swinging from the broomstick, and with one less wrap, it still has no problems holding my son (75 pounds).  I still am not sure that I understand how this knot, and it's relatives work (in fact, I am sure that I don't).  Do you know of any good resources for reading about the structure and physics of knots?  I definitely think that it has alot of similarities to the knots that you both linked, especially the prusik and the even more so, it seems to work with a similar securing method to the andalusian hitch. 

Of course the million dollar question (or at least a million dollars in pride) is whether it counts as a new knot.  I am pretty excited about it, and my wife has been having a field day making fun of me.  Again, thanks much.
Title: Re: new lifting hitch
Post by: X1 on April 26, 2013, 12:02:30 PM
  Notice that you do not use the (first/standing) end of the line at the right side of the pictures / pole  ( you can tie the knot even if it is inaccessible, or it lies at infinity  :)) - you just form a bight on it, and then you start "fishing" this bight ( though the central bight, as if this central bight was a hole on the ice  :)), using the other end of the line as a "fishhook". However, you do use this other end, because your "fishhook" should have a "point", an accessible end. That means that your knot can not be tied-in-the-bight (TIB).
  Now, with the (second/working) end of the line at the left side of the picture / pole, you can also form a (third) bight, and, with it, you can form a double-line fishhook - so you would not have to use the "point" of this (second /working) end either ( the "point" of your "fishhook" would now be the tip of this third bight ). Doing this, you could possible figure out a way to secure the last part of this end ( the last part of the second/working end = the "tail" of the knot ), without having any accessible "point" / end - that is, by tying a tiable-in-the-bight (TIB) knot. I believe that this would make your knot more versatile - and it would be a more "natural" way to finish it, at the second stage, in accordance with the "fishhook" idea used to start it, in the first stage.
  As I use to say, in the KnotLand there are no paths - paths are made by walking. For my part, I can only say that I have tried to walk on the same path you are walking, but I have not been able to meet anything ( else / better than the hitches I had already posted in this Forum ). Of course, there may be many more lurking out there, waiting for a brave knot tyer - and the Andalusian hitch, or the Double Cow hitch, are recent proofs on this. About hitches, see :
  Theory of Hitches, by Benjamin F. Bayman 
  Am. J. of Physics, Vol. 45, No 2, Fef 1977.
  my wife has been having a field day making fun of me.

  Regarding this, I can assure you that you are not alone !  :) Good luck !