International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Fancy and Decorative Knotwork => Topic started by: Chrashley on October 12, 2011, 04:22:14 PM

Title: can this be done?
Post by: Chrashley on October 12, 2011, 04:22:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkIBL5Woguk
In this video if you continue the cross over pattern on the back of the hand you can turn this three part five bight turks head into whatever length you want. 

My question is this:  Has anyone ever seen a way to expand turks heads of more than three parts using this same idea?  Is there a "pattern" to extend the length (bights) of a 4, 5, 6, etc part turks head? 
Title: Re: can this be done?
Post by: Wed on October 12, 2011, 04:49:36 PM
I don't know how to expand TH knots. I tried to learn. But as I do arbitrary amounts of bights and parts right from the beginning, I find expanding superfluous.
Title: Re: can this be done?
Post by: Sweeney on October 12, 2011, 06:06:12 PM
I suppose the answer is yes but have never tried it (though I'm sure I've seen it in books). If you know what size you want this is a very handy website to give you the pattern. All you need is a tube (or even a flat board) and pins top and bottom.

http://data.oreilly.com/jallwine/knots/?width=191&height=172&bights=4&show_colors=true&parts=9 (http://data.oreilly.com/jallwine/knots/?width=191&height=172&bights=4&show_colors=true&parts=9)

You might also be interested in Don Burrhus website http://www.knottool.com/ (http://www.knottool.com/) - his "cookbooks" for turks heads and globe knots are excellent.

Barry
Title: Re: can this be done?
Post by: skyout on October 12, 2011, 06:25:10 PM
I'm not sure if you have to be a member to see the link below, but KHWW.net is free and a great site full of knotty info with great members always willing to help.

L. Damewood said, "It is possible to extend this method to make more complex knots, and I've put up another page that shows how to do a series of knots, starting with the 3x4, then the 5x6 and the 7x8, each larger knot containing the previous knot as a preliminary stage. "

http://khww.net/articles.php?article_id=66 (http://khww.net/articles.php?article_id=66)

Also, Sidney Wood has a ton of info on the TH knots here:
http://www.taylortel.net/~stwood/index.html (http://www.taylortel.net/~stwood/index.html)

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: can this be done?
Post by: Knot Head on October 12, 2011, 08:34:47 PM
Just about any turks head can be expanded to any amount of parts and bights. It's the interweaves that can cause problems. Only because the interweave is ruled by the base knot itself.

The video provided above is also another way to make a spanish ring knot. He used the cross over method to build the knot.

B...
Title: Re: can this be done?
Post by: Takler on October 13, 2011, 05:57:50 PM
Well, I usually expand most my TH's using method described by Ron Edwards in Turk's-Heads from Rams Skull Press.

The book describing rules to expand TH's:
3x2 > 5x4 > 7x6 > 9x8 > . . .

5x2 > 9x4 > . . .

4x3 > 6x5 > 8x7 > 10x9 > . . .

3x4 > 5x6 > 7x8 > . . .

3x5 > 5x9 > . . .

3x5 > to desire lenght of your need

brgds

Marcin
TAKLER
Title: Re: can this be done?
Post by: struktor on October 14, 2011, 06:34:35 PM
Free software to dawnload

http://www.narval.republika.pl/

Struktor
Title: Re: can this be done?
Post by: Chrashley on October 14, 2011, 10:04:41 PM
I understand how to expand Turks heads. The thing I don't like about this method is that it expands parts and bights. My thought was this; to be able to tie any Turks head with 3 bights and any number of parts and then extend it would be easier to memorize than figuring out a grid or what base to expand from. Just a thought.
Title: Re: can this be done?
Post by: skyout on October 14, 2011, 10:44:31 PM
Dan Alaska showed us how to use the "mule" to expand the parts in his Nantucket Sailor bracelet here:
http://knotical-arts.com/nantucket1.html (http://knotical-arts.com/nantucket1.html)

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: can this be done?
Post by: Chrashley on October 16, 2011, 03:21:52 AM
sky-thanks but see my post above.  I already know how to expand via a mule.  I need you to think outside of the mule pattern here. Im talking about taking a turks head of any number of parts (4, 5, 6, etc) and creating a pattern to extend ONLY the bights. 
Title: Re: can this be done?
Post by: PatDucey on October 16, 2011, 06:25:43 AM
A two lead Turkshead or thee lead Turkshead can be expanded to increase bights only.  A TH with more than 3 leads cannot be expanded to increase bights only, it must be raised in a manner that will increase leads and bights

The smallest two lead TH is a two lead x three bight knot, also known as an overhand knot.  It can be expanded to a 2 lead x 5 bight, 7 bight, etc.  Any two lead TH can then be raised to a 4 lead TH.  A 2 lead x 3 Bight TH will raise to a 4 Lead x 5 bight, and then a 6 lead x 7 bight.  A 2 lead x 5 bight TH will raise to a 4 lead x 9 bight, and then a 6 lead x 13 bight.

A three lead TH can increaase the number of bights only by 'continuing the braid'.  Start by pulling some extra line into the knot to give yourself some more room in the knot.  Spread the knot apart so there is a large gap between where the standing part enters the knot, and the working end comes out.  There will be two leads running the length of this gap.  To continue the braid, pass the working end between these leads, and then cross the leads and pass the working end through the gap between the crossed leads.  This method will allow you to continue the three strand braid pattern of a 3 lead TH using only the working end of line.

A 3 lead x 4 bight TH will become a 3 lead x 7 bight, and then a 3 lead x 10 bight, etc.  A 3 lead x 4 bight TH will expand to a 5 lead x 6 bight, and then a 7 lead x 8 bight. A 3 lead x 7 bight will expand into a 5 lead x 11 bight, and then a 7 lead x 15 bight etc.

A 3 lead x 2 bight TH will become a 3 lead x 5 bight, and then a 3 lead x 8 bight, etc.  A 3 lead x 2 bight TH will expand to a 5 lead x 4 bight, and then a 7 lead x 6 bight. A 3 lead x 5 bight will expand into a 5 lead x 9 bight, and then a 7 lead x 13 bight etc.

Using this method you can find your way to many of the possible Turksheads that are generally square, or have more bights than leads.

Pat
Title: Re: can this be done?
Post by: skyout on October 16, 2011, 11:37:16 PM
sky-thanks but see my post above.  I already know how to expand via a mule.  I need you to think outside of the mule pattern here. Im talking about taking a turks head of any number of parts (4, 5, 6, etc) and creating a pattern to extend ONLY the bights.
Oops. I was way out in left field. Sorry 'bout that. Maybe the links will help someone else.
Title: Re: can this be done?
Post by: Rrok007 on October 20, 2011, 05:40:00 PM
I'm surprised Stormdrane hasn't chimed in... that dude is the Great Cthulhu of Turks Heads.