International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Practical Knots => Topic started by: Mike in MD on August 31, 2011, 10:00:46 PM

Title: small fancy bend
Post by: Mike in MD on August 31, 2011, 10:00:46 PM

I like this bend.  But it is probably not a *practical* knot because it is tricky to weave.  Also, after weaving, it is tricky to set right.  So I am trying this in Fancy Knotwork.  I don't know if you have a name for this bend.

Title: Re: small fancy bend
Post by: Rrok007 on September 01, 2011, 05:42:28 PM
The construction looks very similar to a True Lover's Knot. In fact, if I were more confident in my knowledge, I'd say that's exactly what it is and that you're using the TLK as a ben instead of a decorative knot. Not an altogether bad idea depenind on usage... how well does it seem to hold up?
Title: Re: small fancy bend
Post by: Mike in MD on September 01, 2011, 06:44:17 PM
I've checked the True-Lover's Knots in ABOK: 798, 2417, 2418, 2420, and more.  They all involve interlocking overhand knots.  The bend above is based on interwoven loops.  The loop in the first step in ABOK 153 is the basis for this bend.  And, yes, it is very strong and does not jam (that I can tell). 

Title: Re: small fancy bend
Post by: SS369 on September 01, 2011, 11:49:47 PM
Hi Mike,

a bend by the nature of its (archaic) name is a practical knot. To join two or more rope ends.
It belongs in the Practical board.

I've tied this just a few moments ago and yes it is a bit fiddly to snug up into the form your photo presents. I usually tie offered knots in three different ropes/cords to get a feel for them. 1/8 inch, 5.5mm Dyneema and 10.5mm dynamic. Not usually any laid rope or cord though.
1/8 inch it semi jams, meaning that after a hand load it required a small spike to facilitate untying.
5.5mm Dyneema it did not hold very well. Tricky stuff this Dyneema, but way strong. dynamic rope I was able to untie it, but could not gauge the full strength quality.

It is a neat looking knot and I applaud your tangling it and sharing it with us.

Title: Re: small fancy bend
Post by: knot4u on September 02, 2011, 02:46:45 AM
I describe the original knot as interwoven bights (or interwoven round turns), not interwoven loops.  If the working ends are attached to their standing ends, then the knot is interwoven loops.
Title: Re: small fancy bend
Post by: Dan_Lehman on September 03, 2011, 05:06:16 AM
Absent any clear resolution on what a *knot* is, let's just say
that the particularly shaped tangle presented here is the same
but for given loading of the hackamore / jug/bottle sling knot
which is presented in many knots books.  It's a neat-looking
structure, and sure would be a fancy decorative knotting
to use as a lanyard knot (maybe we should ping-pong this
back into that other forum ( maybe we can define rules
whereby particular Moves are given Over/Under relations
to prior ones, and we could define / tie a knot simply by
moving the thread back'n'forth in just the right way!   ;D )).

I put a hurt on some 5/8" laid CoEx PP/PE (using a 5:1
crummy pulley and me); I don't accept the "easy to untie"
claim, though I did untie it without tools (or Words of Command ).

Title: Re: small fancy bend
Post by: Mike in MD on September 03, 2011, 03:49:02 PM

Dan, I agree.  The weave is the same as the jug sling.  I put it in Fancy/Decorative because that is how I use it.  But I think that with the right rope it is a very effective bend.  The knot is tricky to set up.  There are two *bumps* in the center.  Two half loops go around the bumps on the outside.  The loops have to be set snug against the standing part.  Then it works very well.  My experience is that pulling on the outside loops quickly unties the bend. 

Title: Re: small fancy bend
Post by: xarax on September 13, 2011, 10:19:19 AM
   A picture of the Maik s bend, that shows its symmetry. This bend can also be viewed as a twice retucked thief knot.
Title: Re: small fancy bend
Post by: xarax on October 30, 2011, 05:51:03 AM
   A similar bend is the A 22, "Axis knot", by Roger E.Miles ( Symmetric bends. (How to Join Two lLengths of Cord), 1995 ( p. 84, p. 105) - ABoK#804. In a sense, it is "more" symmetric than Mike s bend, and so a little easier to inspect. (See the attached pictures).
Title: Re: small fancy bend
Post by: xarax on February 17, 2012, 05:17:02 PM
   Yet another knot, that resembles the Axis knot. I call it "Two Pretzels" knot, because that is what it is, two simply interlinked Pretzel-form-like (un)knots. We can/should(?) also call  call it : the "Axis B" knot. As the Mike s "small fancy bend" and the Axis bend, the two interlinked (un)knots in this "Two Pretzels" knot are not overhand knots - so we can use this knot, as well as the other two, for end-of-line bowline-like loops. (The knot presented here is more compact than the other two, which mght be considered as an advantage.)
   (Miller, in a note on Axis bend, refers to Ashley s "Flat Square Knots", ABoK#803, ABoK#804.)

P.S. This knot is not symmetric, as regards the standing end/tail configuration - so the picture coresponds to two distinct knots.The fact that I do not specify the standing ends and the tails, has only to do with the fact that I do not know which is the more secure configuration for each case, the bend knot and the fixed, end-of-the-line, bowline-like knot.