International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Practical Knots => Topic started by: TMCD on July 27, 2011, 12:43:37 PM

Title: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: TMCD on July 27, 2011, 12:43:37 PM
I always read where two half hitches is recommended for many tasks, but in my knotting experiences I much prefer the look and feel of two reversed hh's. Since I'm a fisherman, I'm always debating on what hitch to use on my anchors, mooring ring, and several other tie offs around my boat. So I'm constantly testing out the Buntline, Lobster Buoy(I really like), two hh's, two reversed hh's(I really like), the fisherman's bend, the anchor bend variant etc.

In my experience's, the Anchor Bend Variant is an excellent choice for tying on small anchors. The common recommendation in the fishing community is to tie the Fisherman's Bend on your anchors, I just don't like the way the last half hitch rides. I don't care for how the last half hitch rides in the two hh's scenario either. If you'll notice, the last half hitch in both of those doesn't really get good and snug. Two reversed hh's snugs and rides the SE much more compact and tight IMO...plus looks great. I think the Lobster Buoy Hitch, Buntline Hitch, Anchor Bend Variant and two reversed hh's are much more attractive and better than the FB or two hh's.

I love fiddling around with these various hitches, what's your favorite hitch to use in these situations?  For example, if I'm towing a car, I'll probalby use a slipped Buntline or two reversed hh's. Another funny example is the fact that all four anchors in my boat have four different hitches tied to them. One's the Lobster Buoy, one's two reversed hh's, one's a buntilne and the other is the anchor bend variant. Isn't that crazy, further proof I'm a knot nut.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: alpineer on July 27, 2011, 02:33:46 PM
I always read where two half hitches is recommended for many tasks, but in my knotting experiences I much prefer the look and feel of two reversed hh's. Since I'm a fisherman, I'm always debating on what hitch to use on my anchors, mooring ring, and several other tie offs around my boat. So I'm constantly testing out the Buntline, Lobster Buoy(I really like), two hh's, two reversed hh's(I really like), the fisherman's bend, the anchor bend variant etc.

In my experience's, the Anchor Bend Variant is an excellent choice for tying on small anchors. The common recommendation in the fishing community is to tie the Fisherman's Bend on your anchors, I just don't like the way the last half hitch rides. I don't care for how the last half hitch rides in the two hh's scenario either. If you'll notice, the last half hitch in both of those doesn't really get good and snug. Two reversed hh's snugs and rides the SE much more compact and tight IMO...plus looks great. I think the Lobster Buoy Hitch, Buntline Hitch, Anchor Bend Variant and two reversed hh's are much more attractive and better than the FB or two hh's.

I love fiddling around with these various hitches, what's your favorite hitch to use in these situations?  For example, if I'm towing a car, I'll probalby use a slipped Buntline or two reversed hh's. Another funny example is the fact that all four anchors in my boat have four different hitches tied to them. One's the Lobster Buoy, one's two reversed hh's, one's a buntilne and the other is the anchor bend variant. Isn't that crazy, further proof I'm a knot nut.

Sounds good to me TMCD. Materials change, so why not the knots tied in them.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: knot4u on July 27, 2011, 07:20:00 PM
Do you ever use a Sailor's Hitch or a Timber Hitch?
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: xarax on July 27, 2011, 10:12:11 PM
Do you ever use a Sailor's Hitch or a Timber Hitch?

  If I were asked which are the two worst, ugliest one- two- or three-wrap hitches, out of the many dozens known, I would probably have had recomended those two... :) Well, THAT is a coincidence !  :)
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: knot4u on July 27, 2011, 10:57:28 PM
Do you ever use a Sailor's Hitch or a Timber Hitch?

  If I were asked which are the two worst, ugliest one- two- or three-wrap hitches, out of the many dozens known, I would probably have had recomended those two... :) Well, THAT is a coincidence !  :)

To my eyes, the Sailor's Hitch and the Timber Hitch appear beautiful because of their characteristics.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: Hrungnir on July 28, 2011, 08:56:05 AM
Do you ever use a Sailor's Hitch or a Timber Hitch?

  If I were asked which are the two worst, ugliest one- two- or three-wrap hitches, out of the many dozens known, I would probably have had recomended those two... :) Well, THAT is a coincidence !  :)
This is near by getting off topic. But this isn't the the Decorative knot forum. The Timber Hitch is a serious candidate as the most practical hitch, and the Sailor Hitch isn't lost behind a wagon either.

I can understand that symmetrical and visually apealing would be arguments for easily recognized and controlled hitches. The Timber Hitch is however both. The Sailor Hitch is also simple enough to be easily recognized and controlled by a user which has the hitch in his/hers arsenal.

Do you ever use a Sailor's Hitch or a Timber Hitch?
The Sailor Hitch and Timber Hitch are for attaching a rope to a pole, while the hitches represented by  TMCD is superior as ring hitches. I assume that is why you suggested those two hitches :)
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: knot4u on July 28, 2011, 09:04:19 AM
Do you ever use a Sailor's Hitch or a Timber Hitch?
The Sailor Hitch and Timber Hitch are for attaching a rope to a pole, while the hitches represented by  TMCD is superior as ring hitches. I assume that is why you suggested those two hitches :)

I'm not a sailor.  I was asking a non-rhetorical question, and not really making a suggestion.  From what I've seen on boats, there seem to be opportunities to tie a Sailor Hitch or a Timber Hitch.

The original poster seems to want to discuss hitches for "anchors, mooring ring, and several other tie offs around my boat" (first paragraph).  Then, he leaves things wide open for discussion in the third paragraph.  The original poster should clarify exactly what application(s) we should be discussing here.  For example, are we to discuss hitches to a ring, a pole, or something else?
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: xarax on July 28, 2011, 10:16:17 AM
what hitch to use on my anchors, mooring ring, and several other tie offs around boat.

   I would bet that whoever devised and named the so-called "Sailor s hitch" was a landsman...and, as there are no trees growing on the sea or the ship itself, (yet... :)), it is also no wonder that the timber hitch is not-so-clever a hitch, to say the least. Unfortunately, the times of the tall ships have long gone, so we can not ask an active sailor if he he had ever used any of those two hitches on his ship.
   There are dozens, may be dozens of dozens hitches that can be fastened on poles, rings, hooks, eyes, bollards, and tied around tightened or not lines. Some of them can withstand lengthwise pull along slippery poles, which is the most difficult task for a hitch. Also, some of them can be tied in the bight, and some of them are designed so we can fasten other lines on them.
   I do not know if there was ever a scientifically sound testing of all those hitches, with marine ropes. However, this can be turned into a field of glory for the able knot tester !
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: xarax on July 28, 2011, 11:27:03 AM
   Just an example of what might be one of the most simple hitches (See the attached picture). An overhand knot, with marine ropes, is more than enough !  Of course, a series of half hitches would hold anything, including the sailor himself.(1)

1) http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/Ascender/KnotPages/KnotHitchSeries.html
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: TMCD on July 29, 2011, 03:37:32 AM
I'm speaking about ring hitches mainly and of course the cleat hitch is a MUST for every angler to know. But I'm also thinking about scenarios not just on the water but in other situations as well. Any situation where a person must tie on to a ring, towing a car(axle, bumper or ball hitch), hanging items up in your garage etc, requires a person to know at least one or two good hitches. When I think of a Timber Hitch, hauling a log comes to mind immediately. A sailors hitch certainly wasn't at the top of my list either, it's basically a rolling hitch isn't it?

As I stated, the most common and trusted method is simply tying two half hitches to the ring. A really good hitch that I didn't mention is the Bull Hitch. I wonder if the Bull Hitch would work for an anchor? Try backing the Bull Hitch up with an extra half hitch, talk about a super little hitch. I'm surprised the Bull Hitch is so new having been discovered in 1995. Budworth mentions the Ossel Knot which is a great little hitch as well. I love passing the time away playing with these little hitches on a good size eye bolt that I have.

It's interesting as Ashley notes, that the Buntline and two half hitches are basically a clove hitch form and two reversed hitches and the Lobster Buoy Hitch are based off of the Cow Hitch. The later two meet the look requirement better than the former two IMO. I'd love to see a series of tests done on these hitches to find out how they stack up against each other.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: knot4u on July 29, 2011, 09:15:54 PM
Any situation where a person must tie on to a ring, towing a car(axle, bumper or ball hitch), hanging items up in your garage etc, requires a person to know at least one or two good hitches.

Of course, it all depends on the application, the rope material, etc.  Let's assume we're talking about critical applications, like towing or supporting a human body...

If I could recommend only ONE anchor as the go-to anchor, it would likely be a Round Turn and Slipped Buntline.  The Round Turn will add some strength and prevent the Slipped Buntline from getting too tight.  Meanwhile, even with the Round Turn, the Slipped Buntline can still be drawn tight enough before the real load is applied.  The Slipped Buntline would give me assurance that the worst case scenario is going to be either a jam (unlikely) or the rope will break (which depends mostly on rope strength).

In contrast, with Two Half Hitches (instead of the Slipped Buntline), there is the possibility of the knot coming loose.  That's because Two Half Hitches does NOT naturally tighten itself as the load on the standing end increases.  That may not be an issue worthy of too much concern.  However, with the Slipped Buntline, this issue is relatively non-existent.

I have some homemade gym devices that perform the critical task of supporting human bodies (300lbs+) on a daily basis.  I use a variety of anchors with the ropes.  A Slipped Buntline is not always the best.  Other anchors I have in use right now are the Timber Hitch and the Girth Hitch.  In fact, where the Girth Hitch is currently in use, I cannot think of any other anchor that would have worked better there.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: xarax on July 29, 2011, 11:08:17 PM
  If I could recommend only ONE anchor as the go-to anchor, it would likely be a Round Turn and Slipped Buntline.

  For a one-wrap simple hitch, try the Buntline extinguisher  :). (Same number of moves/tucks as the "extinguished" Buntline...(1))

  In fact, where the Girth Hitch is currently in use, I cannot think of any other anchor that would have worked there.

   For a two-wraps simple hitch, try the overhand-knot-based hitch. ( You gave to tie an overhand knot on the standing part, to tie this hitch.)(2)

1) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3105.msg18595#msg18595
2) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3197.0
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: knot4u on July 30, 2011, 02:49:39 AM
  In fact, where the Girth Hitch is currently in use, I cannot think of any other anchor that would have worked there.

   For a two-wraps simple hitch, try the overhand-knot-based hitch. ( You gave to tie an overhand knot on the standing part, to tie this hitch.)(2)

Thanks, but I see I have to provide a pic for others to see what I'm saying...

(http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd468/iq201/Public/2011-04-21-DipStation002.jpg)

It's a Dip Station, among other things.  The purpose of the tensioned rope is provide stability in the back-and-forth direction.

Notice one of the Girth Hitches in the top left.  The two pipes come together at a 90 degree angle.  The tension on the rope extends from the corner along a 45 degree angle between the two joined pipes.  The legs of the Girth are split apart and gripping the corner connection perfectly.  Other knots in the pic include a Slipped Buntline and various knots within Versatackles.  I have since changed the Slipped Buntlines for Timber Hitches, but this pic is a good preview of the final product.

Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: xarax on July 30, 2011, 05:31:04 AM
 The two pipes come together at a 90 degree angle.  The tension on the rope extends from the corner along a 45 degree angle between the two joined pipes.

  Knot4U, having a Versatackle there, you do not need a hitch / noose ! Any fixed length double loop would do the job, and then you can eliminate the slack with the versatackle tensioning mechanism...Am I missing something here ?
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: knot4u on July 30, 2011, 07:12:42 PM
 The two pipes come together at a 90 degree angle.  The tension on the rope extends from the corner along a 45 degree angle between the two joined pipes.

  Knot4U, having a Versatackle there, you do not need a hitch / noose ! Any fixed length double loop would do the job, and then you can eliminate the slack with the versatackle tensioning mechanism...Am I missing something here ?

You're proposing a Double Loop instead of the Girth Hitch I have pictured?  Thank you for participating, but I'll stick with what I have.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: Dan_Lehman on July 31, 2011, 06:16:32 AM
You're proposing a Double Loop instead of the Girth Hitch I have pictured? 

Well, yeah, I guess that would be one way, which hadn't
occurred to me.

What I see wrong is this:  the support structure goes from 3-lines
across to a single strand weak point (at whichever knot).

Rather,
replace the girth hitch (which could equally be a clove h. )
with a pile hitch-like anchorage built w/round turn on the vertical
pipe and half-hitch on the horizontal (this orientation because the
former would be more susceptible to being pushed around the elbow?),
and now twin strands run towards the lower pipe turn --which one can
make and then you make a tensioning structure between the ends
on the open span (as you have).
.:. This gives 2 strands across the entire span, no single-strand weak spot.

Alternatively, one  could girth the vertical pipe and then
half-hitch (with the twin lines) the horizontal --might be simpler
to tie and better in abrasion/chafing at the point of crossing
for the half-hitch's feed into the span.


--dl*
====
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: xarax on July 31, 2011, 11:39:39 AM
a pile hitch-like anchorage built w/round turn on the vertical pipe and half-hitch on the horizontal
 girth the vertical pipe and thenhalf-hitch (with the twin lines) the horizontal

  Where are the KISS and SISS ( : symmetric is simpler ) principle in this ?  :)
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: knot4u on July 31, 2011, 06:00:38 PM
Rather,
replace the girth hitch (which could equally be a clove h. )
with a pile hitch-like anchorage built w/round turn on the vertical
pipe and half-hitch on the horizontal (this orientation because the
former would be more susceptible to being pushed around the elbow?)...

There is no risk of the rope being pushed around the elbow.  It's PVC pipe with an elbow joint that provides a step over which the rope cannot slide.

When I designed this thing, I wanted the direction of the force to extend from the center of the corner between the pipes.  The Cow Hitch naturally centers itself.  (A Bull Hitch may be even better because it would tend to squeeze the sling legs together.)  In contrast, a fixed double loop would not naturally set itself on the precise center between the pipes.  A Pile Hitch would be even less centered.

Having said all that, being centered on the corner is UNNECESSARY.  Notice the opposing ropes are NOT centered on the corners.

I do like the idea of extending the sling so there is no undue weakness at the single point.  Unfortunately, I cut the ropes, and so the ropes aren't long enough to tie a Versatackle or Trucker on a sling.  Anyway, I don't think these ropes are close to breaking.  Is there another reason to eliminate the weak point?

If I did this again, I'd try Dan's idea.  I'd use a Pile hitch instead of the Cow Hitch, and I'd tie a Trucker or Versatackle on the extended sling.  Like I said above, the force does not need to extend from the center of the corner.  In fact, the off-center of the Pile Hitch would cause its Versatackle to be closer to the polar opposite of the criss-crossed Verstackle.  See the pic.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: Atomic on July 31, 2011, 06:08:50 PM
In my line of work (powerlines) we use a rope rig to pull in wire. When we get to the wire stand I like to "make fast" to it using a half loop and two half hitches and then another half hitch in the bight as a safety in case the standing end becomes slack the half hitches won't flip out. I pass a bight through the eye then tie an overhand knot which I flip into a half hitch by pulling the standing end to throw slack so the bight can be pulled. The ropes are usually tight enough to be clear of roads and existing powerlines but not so tight that two people can't pull them one at a time if necessary. The reason for the bight being pulled through the eye is that I can connect the end of the rope to the wire with a kelm grip and swivel without having to have someone to hold the rope tight. Then if necessary the whole half hitch set up can be flipped out by one person losing only 8 or 10 feet of slack that's not going to amount to much over 5500 feet.

Not sure if this will help with your situation but maybe you'll find a use for it someday.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: knot4u on July 31, 2011, 06:21:46 PM
In my line of work (powerlines) we use a rope rig to pull in wire. When we get to the wire stand I like to "make fast" to it using a half loop and two half hitches and then another half hitch in the bight as a safety in case the standing end becomes slack the half hitches won't flip out. I pass a bight through the eye then tie an overhand knot which I flip into a half hitch by pulling the standing end to throw slack so the bight can be pulled. The ropes are usually tight enough to be clear of roads and existing powerlines but not so tight that two people can't pull them one at a time if necessary. The reason for the bight being pulled through the eye is that I can connect the end of the rope to the wire with a kelm grip and swivel without having to have someone to hold the rope tight. Then if necessary the whole half hitch set up can be flipped out by one person losing only 8 or 10 feet of slack that's not going to amount to much over 5500 feet.

I know that's probably not that complicated, but I just can't understand it without a pic.  I read it twice.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: Atomic on July 31, 2011, 06:26:51 PM
I'll try to get one when I get back to the house. I have some rope in the truck that should show it pretty well. The half hitches are in tied in the load part of the line. The safety is in the bight part of the line.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: Dan_Lehman on July 31, 2011, 07:35:23 PM
There is no risk of the rope being pushed around the elbow.
It's PVC pipe with an elbow joint that provides a step over which the rope cannot slide.

So I see; but the offered solution doesn't depend upon this,
thus has generality also as a benefit.


Quote
Unfortunately, I cut the ropes, and so the ropes aren't long enough to tie a Versatackle or Trucker on a sling.

By the looks of both the lengths of tails AND the extent
of overlapping at tensioning structures (rather long),
you have ample rope to re-rig as described.  Beyond
strength --re the single strand-- is **stretch**:  a single
strand will stretch more than doubled, trebled strands.

The suggested improvement is sort of worked qua sling
only at the upper attachment (the girth + half-hitch) ;
it is then a structure of two ends joined with tensioning
mechanism (Versatackle or Gleipnir or ...).
So, you will consume a little more rope at the upper corner,
but not elsewhere (and this is only for the two --each side--
attachments that use the girth h. and not those going
on the complementary diagonal, which have eye purchases).


--dl*
====
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: xarax on July 31, 2011, 08:55:12 PM
a fixed double loop would not naturally set itself on the precise center between the pipes.

  A fixed double loop where the two loops communicate, will ! You have discovered an(other) application that answers to your question :  

Does someone know of an application where it's desirable for loops to communicate?
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: knot4u on July 31, 2011, 09:01:37 PM
a fixed double loop would not naturally set itself on the precise center between the pipes.

  A fixed double loop where the two loops communicate, will ! You have discovered an(other) application that answers to your question :  

Does someone know of an application where it's desirable for loops to communicate?

You would be correct.  It follows that the Cow Hitch part within a Girth Hitch is arguably the simplest double loop that communicates.  Notice I didn't say "fixed", and I don't consider any double loop that communicates to be "fixed".  For example, I don't consider a French Bowline to be a fixed double loop because the loops communicate.

Anyway, it's all academic because if I did it again, I'd run the sling the entire length.  That rules out the double loop that has a weakness at the single point.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: xarax on July 31, 2011, 09:15:24 PM
a French Bowline is not a fixed double loop because the loops communicate.

   To my mind, a "fixed" loop in a loop that simply is not a "noose". So, a fixed double loop is simply a double loop that is not a double noose, so it can have two loops that communicate, communicate with some difficulty, or do not communicate at all. I am not sure about the correct nomenclature here...
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: knot4u on July 31, 2011, 09:32:21 PM
a French Bowline is not a fixed double loop because the loops communicate.

   To my mind, a "fixed" loop in a loop that simply is not a "noose". So, a fixed double loop is simply a double loop that is not a double noose, so it can have two loops that communicate, communicate with some difficulty, or do not communicate at all. I am not sure about the correct nomenclature here...

Well, if you call a French Bowline fixed, at least put a WARNING label on it if you recommend it to a disinterested "customer".  :D
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: Atomic on July 31, 2011, 11:33:00 PM
Please note that while there is load on the line it isn't a great load. There are drums of rope that have breaks on the drum to keep them from spooling and the load is the weight of the rope and the tension of the break. By the end of the spool you are keeping around 5500 feet of rope above road crossings.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZbSbwnTNoVU/TjXOSvB583I/AAAAAAAAAok/CRwm3yQsrh4/s400/IMG_20110731_153531.jpg)

Here you just pull a bight through an eye. I put a bowline on the end to distinguish the normal working end of the rope. In real world it's an eye splice in braided rope. Also the load end isn't under load in these pictures but use your imagination, I had to take the pictures and tie at the same time.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Jzv2yxCqd1o/TjXMM8v2c3I/AAAAAAAAAo0/IhjjfDN9MUY/s400/IMG_20110731_153550.jpg)

Go over the rope and back under tying an overhand knot but pull slack in the load line and pull the bight towards the load.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Eo6GIUZ7Deo/TjXKNN00eKI/AAAAAAAAAow/OT8-y8ZLL1s/s400/IMG_20110731_153611.jpg)

It flips the load line into a half hitch. Do this one more time.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_gD1TO_h-DI/TjXC6AvQ9mI/AAAAAAAAAok/QJ2njCS2Lkk/s400/IMG_20110731_153649.jpg)

Then add the half hitch to the bight for safety. If you don't have this the other hitches could be twisted out inadvertently. The eye can be attached to our wire through a swivel and kelm grip and the whole shabang can be loosened by one guy in a lot of cases. Never passing the eye splice through the eye (in this case the pennel hitch) it makes it easy to hold until you don't need it to.

Here (https://picasaweb.google.com/atomicpc/MakeFast?authuser=0&feat=directlink) is the link to the album in case you need to view them in larger images.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: knot4u on August 01, 2011, 03:16:10 AM
By the looks of both the lengths of tails AND the extent
of overlapping at tensioning structures (rather long),
you have ample rope to re-rig as described.  Beyond
strength --re the single strand-- is **stretch**:  a single
strand will stretch more than doubled, trebled strands.

The suggested improvement is sort of worked qua sling
only at the upper attachment (the girth + half-hitch) ;
it is then a structure of two ends joined with tensioning
mechanism (Versatackle or Gleipnir or ...).
So, you will consume a little more rope at the upper corner,
but not elsewhere (and this is only for the two --each side--
attachments that use the girth h. and not those going
on the complementary diagonal, which have eye purchases).

If I don't do something similar on the complementary diagonal, it's kind of like what's the point of your suggested improvement?  The opposite diagonal would still have that single point weakness, right?  So, on the complementary diagonal, I'm thinking a regular Cow Hitch and then a Trucker (or Versatackle) on the extended sling.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: knot4u on August 01, 2011, 03:30:34 AM
Thank you, Atomic.  That is a Bell Ringer with Half Hitch (ABOK #173) PLUS a Half Hitch formed by the top bight of the Bell Ringer.

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2a69ssj.jpg)
ABOK #173

Add a Half Hitch by using the top bight to get Atomic's contraption:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_gD1TO_h-DI/TjXC6AvQ9mI/AAAAAAAAAok/QJ2njCS2Lkk/s400/IMG_20110731_153649.jpg)

Topologically, it's three Half Hitches total.
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: Dan_Lehman on August 01, 2011, 05:36:28 AM
If I don't do something similar on the complementary diagonal, ...

Ah, yes, what I was thinking of was just the substitution
for the current girth hitch --yes, you would want to take
a different rigging vis-a-vis the single strand segment;
but this is a clearly simple thing to do.

--dl*
====
Title: Re: Two half hitches versus two reversed half hitches and other hitches etc.
Post by: TMCD on August 04, 2011, 09:20:54 PM
I mentioned the Ossel Knot, I meant to type Ossel Hitch. These are two distinct hitches, the Ossel Hitch fits the criteria I first talked about. It's about as simple as you can get but it's a secure hitch. I wouldn't be afraid to tie my anchor off using the Ossel Hitch and they're 25-30 dollars.