International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum
General => Chit Chat => Topic started by: nautile on October 06, 2005, 12:06:30 PM
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Hi !
Here are some ( 78 ) photographies of knots I took in Brittany last september :
- floatsam knots found on beaches in Douranenez Bay
- moorings and boats in the fishermen harbour of Douarnenez
A Yahoo album was too much hard work for a very unsatisfactory result.
You can go onto :
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/SITE%20PRIVATE/nautile-charles.hamel.html
page 2 give access to an "automated" slideshow, (or rather 2 : button are under the pictures "screen")
page 3 give you access to a list of the pix that can be opened one by one.
I fear it will be rather difficult with a modem connection.
Adsl is a must (preferrably in the 10 Mo/20Mo as I have got. Quite swift then)
Cheers
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Hi Nautile,
I tried to view your pictures this evening; but after clicking on anything and everything for a while I gave up ???
is there a problem with access to the pictures? is anyone else having trouble? I can look at the cat and dogs photo though.
Barry ;)
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Hi
Willeke had a problem too.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Have no problem flagged by the 2 friends ( France based) I to whom I ask to verify.
I have verified my Html syntax and my links manually and on http://fr.webmasterplan.com : no problem.
I verified (adsl 20 Mo) my access on Mozilla Firefox and on Internet Explorer 6 : all is correct.
I just modify the TEXT only on page 2 ( cat reviewing the dogs) but clicking on the caption Brittany slideshow send you where it is intended. And slideshow is working.
I call it from inside the forum : no problem.
I am mystified.
Try again with :
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/SITE%20PRIVATE/nautile-charles.hamel.html
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/SITE%20PRIVATE/page%20%202.html
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/SITE%20PRIVATE/page%201.html
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/SITE%20PRIVATE/page%203.html this work even if done from another computer ( have it verified)
I would appreciate if you send me an email ( so as not to clutter the forum) if it still does not work.
Regards
Added : it is html 4 and browser must be java enabled.
Verified once again by clicking on my post : all is working for me. Asked another friend to verify : no prblem.
I really do not understand.
Second addition : no problem for those with Mozilla Thunderbird ( superior IMO to IE 6) with Java j2re1.2_03.
Some inconstant problem with button action for those with IE6.
The direct links to pages already provided solve problems of button navigation.
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Thanks Nautile,
This did work, I like the photos, I would never have tought to take these though.
Willeke
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I did not have any problem to look at your pictures (even first link) I have seen the two shows
It's great to see all these knots in situation.
I like very much the" twisted" bowline? I'll get my ABOK soon ;) ( mooring line 4)
Thanks
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It's great to see all these knots in situation.
I like very much the" twisted" bowline? I'll get my ABOK soon ;) ( mooring line 4)
Indeed, it's great to see some images of actual ("real live") knots (and given that
I'm using a dial-up connection and haven't yet seen them all, there might be
some more gems to behold).
I cannot discern to my satisfaction the structure shown in floatsam-E4.jpg, and
associated photos. One naturally tries to figure this as some knot joining two cords,
but I think that the nature is other than what is naturally beleived: i.e., that
the longer ends, from the left side, are of the same piece, which forms an
Overhand knot through the other piece's version of a Dbl.Oh.?! --am I right?
I just can't take one line from the single Oh. all the way through the Dble.Oh
and be able to connect the remaining line with the *unused* parts.
(This roughly quarter-inch PP kernmantle cord might seem odd for using on all sorts
of tie-up tasks, but it's what I see on docks I've been around. --along with 5/16"
orange like stuff.)
Note how those mooring-line Bwl.s are loosely set--and one can often find them
capsized. That in the white hawser behind the blue hawser of mooring-lines-4
shows the SPart making a round turn rather than what might be seen as a half-hitch
(something which belies Dick Chisholm's positing the Bwl's breakpoint at the point
of the SPart's crossing itself--in some cases, it might barely touch itself!).
As for those traps (aka "pots"), they're for crabs I guess? --stacked alternately
rightside-up/-down on bottom & top tiers, but to the same side inbetween!?
The binding rope looks ridiculously oversized; but maybe its longline that is retired
from that duty, and now serves this less demanding task? --still, looks rather
awkward to fit, etc.. What sort of rigging lies within the pots, and how are they
connected to anything (are they hoisted straight up, with maybe a 4-leg bridle,
or from one end, with a 2-leg bridle? --or ... ??
Hmmm, looking at lobster-or-crab-traps (identity crisis!), there seem to be two
things at a pot end: a 2-leg bridle, and a smaller cord w/2 Oh. knots, perhaps for
handling a pot as it is brought up over the rail?
Note some different bridle structures: Clove hitch to the pot sides, in all cases
(very common), and in one case the end makes a HH and then is tucked through
the lay; in another, it appears to also do this but then be jammed (and maybe
in a 2nd tucking) within an Oh knot, which knot serves primarily to limit the range
of motion of the nylon attachment *fig.8* of sorts. (I've several of these, as the
lobsterman whose dock I was on seemed to not like them, and had thrown them
out with old rope in maintenance of (maybe newly acquired) lobster pots.)
Although on the left side of this bridle, the attachment differs, and the end seems
to be buried along the pot frame!?
And that small-eyed splice at the right side--with ten? tucks! Is that purposefully
done--to limit flexibility--, for handling, perhaps?
Well, you have my permission & best wishes for a return to further this research,
both w/camera & any interrogation available w/the fishermen. Some might welcome
a chance to chat about cordage use. (And is that blue stuff fibrilated PP, or is is
copolymer!? --the flat fibres are quite evident in your close-up of a plaited splice.)
And many, many thanks for what you've put up for show'n'tell!!! :D
Cheers,
--dl*
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:)No problems looking at the pics. Interesting to see some familiar knots, ropes and lines. There is a very well entrenched French ancestry on the west coast of Newfoundland. Perhaps that explains it. Thanks. Dee
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Hello!
Hi Dan_Lehman
Thanks for your interest and this beautiful analysis.
I forgot to show the whole of some knots Floatsam-E and floatsam-D
Floatsam E serie : http://charles.hamel.free.fr/BRITTANY-KNOTS/floatsam-E4.jpg
Mistake is made good by adding 10 pics and drawings ( I am no artist!)
You can access them on ADDENDA DAN_LEHMAN
Either on site
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/SITE%20PRIVATE/nautile-charles.hamel.html
On th eopening screen see "green" link "ADDENDA DAN_LEHMAN"
Or direct on the thumbnails page.
They are in small format to speed onload and are resized by mouse action.
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/ADDENDA%20KNOTS%20LEHMAN/THUMBNAIL-ADDENDA.html
Hi Dee : yes Terre-Neuve (for us) is traditional fishing ground for Brittany fishermen. France "Marine Nationale" still maintain an aviso on site for medical and help at sea purposes in these waters.
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The "orange stuff" I discarded ( one picture in addenda ) since it was only tangles without knots.
Not sure but I think is use as a "highlighting" and is very loosely "plaited" on other stuff.
Yes its is PP ( plaited and hollow, so it goes "flat" after tension and the floatsam piece I have are sort of hardened and very rough on the hands.
They seems to use a sort of colors convention, at least in Brittany.
- green ( or grey-blue) is for nets ( chaluts : drag-nets or trawls) and is PP ( cost effective!).
They are machine made and undergo a tratement by high water vapour to give if a "regularized" shape when new. They are ( we say "ramender" to mean repair, it means "making good again") repaired by hand as you see in some of the pictures I put. But they are never as good as new.
- red or blue is for sardine ( pilchard ) seine ( like Paris river we write it senne in french) and is pp
- black is for tunny and is nylon.
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Fishermen ( and plaisanciers too : the pleasure "sailors" ) tend to be sometimes sloppy with their knots, but never so much as they are now with the nautical vocabulary. Most of the beautiful, specialized language is being lost. Now it is not rare to hear everything on a boat/ship being called " corde" ( rope ). Not so long ago there was a tanding joke : "how many "corde" on a ship". Answer is only one ; the one on the cook's bell. Every other rope had a definite and precise name. In my diving days you would have been mocked for asking " a rope: une corde. The generic appellation is "bout" ( bout, pronounced boutE - as in "piece" "end")
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About the crisis identity of "crabs or lobsters traps" ( your "pots") :
Not easy to be sure :
You can get an idea if you know the fishing grounds were they go :
Mautitaniia and it is green langouste. The red is on other fishing grounds.
Brittany and it could be crabs ( captured also with nets), lobsters, shrimps ( these are captured also " a la peche a pied" " on foot fishing" by pushing a net that is maintained open by a bar that you maintained in contact with the sandy botton, you walk at most knee-deep),prawns. Difference is mainly in the meshingof the pots.
As for the overall shape it is more a question of regional variation imposed by the nature ( rock, sand....) of the sea bottom.
They can be disposed one by one or in strings.
These men do not take kindly to landlubbers interrupting them at work : only trick to use : offerring "une tournee in the nearest cafe" ( offering free drinks in the nearest bar ). Will think about it.
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As for mooring-line-4
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/BRITTANY-KNOTS/Mooring-Line-4.jpg
Have had I you keen eyes and knowledge I woould have made close-up of the white hawser.
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If anyone is interested in links to sites about fishing techniques and particularities about : les casiers ( what you call "pots" )
Just ask and I will post some with pictures and easy to translate text.
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I hope that all who can get hold of a digital camera ( or even an argentic one : scan the pics after) and live near a coastal town will put some pictures for us.
It could also be knots on a building site, but must of those are "out of bounds";
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Near Paris, but at the opposite to where I live is the Port de Conflans Sainte Honorine on River Seine ( Conflans Sainte Honorine river port ): it is where all the "peniches" ( barges) are moored. May be one day I will screw up the courage for the 4 h round trip and go and try to get some pictures of knots.
Cheers
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Hello!
Mistake is made good by adding 10 pics and drawings ( I am no artist!)
You can access them on ADDENDA DAN_LEHMAN
So, the structure is as I came around to guessing. --though I cannot guess
why.... Nor for the one in green cord.
The "orange stuff" I discarded ( one picture in addenda ) since it was only tangles without knots. ... Yes it is PP ( plaited and hollow, so it goes "flat" after tension and the floatsam piece I have are sort of hardened and very rough on the hands.
Don't discard, play with it! Come to realize its characteristic. I will be surprised
if indeed it is hollow, and not instead with a core of maybe 11? single monofil
fibers (maybe the ends were cut hot and melted-sealed; on cut-open ends,
one can pull down the mantle or push up the kern so it's like a volcano erupting!).
But it nevertheless does tend to flatten, the individual kern fibres pressed to
either side of each other.
(Btw, my notion of "kernmantle" is that it should (not currently so defined)
denote rope of core-&-sheath construction in which the core cannot maintain
integrity as a unit absent the core. This cord, with individual monofilament
fibres, and climbing rope, with individual small laid core cords, are paradigms.
A double-braid/braid-on-braid stands in contrast (although the core might not
be well suited to isolated use--but much yachting rope IS, coming with advice
about how to strip the sheath for regions of the installed rope not to be handled
manually (and so unneeding of the added material for handling)).
> and is PP ( cost effective!).
And I think that there are grades/qualities of PP used by commercial fisherman
that are much better at resisting UV degradation than what might be commonly
available to the layman. (E.g., just on a single laid 1/4" rope, with one laid black
to two yellow strands, extended exposure showed the black to resist much
better than the yellow, which were sun-bleached white/clear to disintegration,
in a rope used to support a sapling! That was just color difference, but there
is said to be other treatment to "stabilize" the material for resistance.
Fishermen ( and plaisanciers too : the pleasure "sailors" ) tend to be sometimes sloppy with their knots,
Though how to judge this?! If the knotted structure works, ... . Maybe the slop
comes with the reward of quickness, which might be most of what is realized
by the user--some extra rope or inelegance being unfelt penalties?
Though I think I've seen some improvements in both time & material efficiency
for one 3-legged pot bridle I'm familiar with, over what I've so far found.
(E.g., tying the 3rd led to the Oh.loopknot eye formed by the 1-2 legs
with a Clove H. backed w/HH w/end hogring stapled is surely NOT efficient!
Another person however simply made an Oh stopper to be fit between legs
of the Oh eye, which were further constrained/shortened by a hogring and
the eye filled by gangion's Becket H. attachment.)
but never so much as they are now with the nautical vocabulary. Most of the beautiful, specialized language is being lost. Now it is not rare to hear everything on a boat/ship being called "corde" ( rope ). Not so long ago there was a standing joke : "how many 'corde' on a ship?". Answer is only one ;
One might question this as just another knot myth, advanced dogmaticly by
those from the grand sailing ships & navy, and not all so true ever of fishermen and
other users? --parotted for its "just right" flavor along with the erroneous images
of knots by book after book ... .
These men do not take kindly to landlubbers interrupting them at work
Oh, I know the feeling. As though we might think they were having so much fun
out on the boat, and were eager to regale the odd interrogator with stories!
But individuals differ, and some might be quite happy to talk about this PART
of their work (it's only a part).
On the other hand, if one gets lucky, there might be some case where an interested,
knot-wise fellow's extra hands & energy can be put to work--work that both
helps the fisherman get things done, and informs the helper firsthand!
As for mooring-line-4
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/BRITTANY-KNOTS/Mooring-Line-4.jpg
Have had I you keen eyes and knowledge I woould have made close-up of the white hawser.
I was at the shore and got to see more of these. --found one tied again quite
loose in, oh, 1.25-inch laid nylon, which surely could've been set tighter, with
one Bwl capsized, the other end not (and a Rosendahl's bend joining ... !).
I have a lead for asking about that; folks on historical restoration, so not exactly
immediate/direct industrial users, but still a point to enquire Why?
And it would help to put the question about the "left-handed" Bwl to that navy
said to prefer it: is it precisely because it better resists capsizing (which I think
it does, as the collar-leg adjacent to the SPart of the Bwl will be tensioned and
not able to be drawn back to capsize)?! Anyone got a lead on this?
If anyone is interested in links to sites about fishing techniques and particularities about : les casiers ( what you call "pots" )
Just ask and I will post some with pictures and easy to translate text.
I imagine some are (one i.p.).
Willeke remarked that she'd have not thought to take the photos. Hmmm, why
not? One should recognize the benefit, of getting actual data on knot-use. And
there is aethestic value here too! (One of those stern shots has the most marvelous
water hues!)
Cheers,
(-;
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> knots in actual use
Given the task to tie off the end of the mooring line prior to its being cut for
chemical whipping(?)--, shown at:
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/BRITTANY-KNOTS/Mooring-Line-4.jpg,
how many people reading this forum would have done it as shown (using an
Overhand Noose & round turn, tied off with an Overhand--as best I can discern)?
Or would the fabled Constrictor be deemed the obvious choice--and to challenge
this, heresy!?
Using similar materials, I find the C. to lose in terms of material efficiency
(one needs BOTH ends long enough for purchase, and then one is a waste
(the other running to one's stock of material)), and grip--it loosens too easily,
and doesn't tighten so well. Though it lacks the protuberance of the two Overhands
in the other structure, and if it were to be temporary, long ends wouldn't matter,
as the entire cord would be removed for other use(s). (If you've not thrown out
that orange cord, Nautile, you could play with this a bit and see ... .)
--dl*
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"The "orange stuff" I discarded " : yes but only in the pics shown. I brought it back.
Same stuff as the green one used for netting that appear bleached by sea, sun and sand.
Don't discard, play with it!...I will be
surprised if indeed it is hollow, and not instead with a core of maybe 11? single
monofil fibers
See pics here : rope autopsy :
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/Orange-Green%20Stuff_0.jpg
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/Orange-Green%20Stuff_1.jpg
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/Orange-close-up.jpg
Played with it when I found it.
and is PP ( cost effective!)
That is the conclusion I attained on the following ground :
- Brittany fishermen are more a thrifty lot than a thrivy one ( very low revenue for long hours of work) and they do tend to very often "have not 2 euros to rub together".
- they do not seems to be very attentive to save piece of 15 or 20 inches of lenght:
- In the "cooperative maritime" ( that is the fishermen community shop ) it is the cheapest rope.
Though how to judge this?! If the knotted structure works,
And right works="good" ; dont works="bad"
Well may be in some cases "sloppy" is a too hastily dealt judgement : "not economical", "bizarre", not aesthetic..." "surprising" :
One pic here, but as it is not mine link will be dead by the end of october.
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/NOT%20ECONOMICAL-1.jpg
One I noted and re-did this morning
http://charles.hamel.free.fr/Noted-mooringline-rebuilted.jpg unusual but pleasant looking
Mooring a painter with just a turn and a one half hitch is so sloppy that the painter decided to take a "floatabout" ( adaptation of the ausssie "walkabout") in harbour!.
Putting so much unidentified knots piled one upon the other for a volume of about 30" * 20" *15" and ending in having the mooring line axed, is it sloppy or idiosyncrasic ?
They have a saying in Brittany : "un tour mort et deux demi-cles n'ont jamais lache" ( a round turn and two half hitches never let go before ):
but is putting 4 or 5 round turns and 6 or 7 half hitches the symptom of an anxious guy or a sloppy knotter.
Making an eye to be used as mooring line ( even temporary, in Brittany you never know what sea and weather will do!) with friction tape instead of splice is...sloppy?
Not abiding by the rule of last comer to put his mooring "under" and through the eyes of first comers lines, is....what if not sloppy : impolite?
Another person however simply made an Oh stopper to be fit between legs of the Oh eye
That is similar ( not a somple Overhand)to the http://charles.hamel.free.fr/BRITTANY-KNOTS/floatsam-B1.jpguse.
It is "put in" one of the hole of a plastic figure of eight piece ( I do not know the english word for it) to hold on the pot.
One might question this as just another knot myth, advanced dogmaticly by those from the grand sailing ships & navy, and not all so true ever of fishermen and other users?
You are right : fishermen vocabulary was not the one use on tall-ships, on cruise ship or in military Marine Nationale.
But...
In my long gone youth I lived in Avranches ( Gl Patton is famed for his "thrust" through this town in WWII) about 10 miles from Granville. I was 8 when I arrived there.
Till about 1950 there were "cap-horniers" ( cape horners) in activity there, and there was much fishing activity : I can tell you (valid for farming words too) that there was a very precise vocabulary to be used.
Granted in Normandy "le patois" ( the local dialect) was in fact the 16-17th century French.
At the time I could readily read it and many people still spoke it : not anymore.
I tried some words learnt in my youht with young people in Avranches : googled eyed faces I got.
On board of he french Marine Nationale goelette ( school ship for officers ) care is taken not to say rope for a hallyard or a stay!
That is not snobbery but safety. Same mind map shared!
Just as onboard of the "tugboat" that keep dogwatch over "le Rail" ( the Rail) off Brittany coast : vocabulary is not sloppy : that is the price for quick action in tight corners.
Even in my old job : medical vocabulary is much impoverished and many of the very precise and "nuances" words are only found in dictionnaries now. Do not utter them among assitance under 60!
Way of the world, I know!
if one gets lucky, there might be some case ... both
helps the fisherman get things done, and informs the helper firsthand!
Well! there you are in Brittany ( and stillto this day if you are born two town away you are "the stranger"), and you are in France : so much regulations, laws, insurances obligations...
They cannot( would not?) let you set a foot and work ( even without pay) on their boats.
I have being going to this part of the world since more than a third of a century ago.
And still, despite uncounted shared diving hours, I am not really "one of them" ( and my paternal family branch hail from the very near Normandy!).
Queer lot frenches can be! that is me telling you!
And it would help to put the question about the "left-handed" Bwl to that
navy said to prefer it: is it precisely because it better resists capsizing (which I
think it does, as the collar-leg adjacent to the SPart of the Bwl will be tensioned
and not able to be drawn back to capsize)?!
In my post about "french bowlines" : the left hand bowline that figure in the 1875 "Manuel du Gabier" ( Topman Manual).
They do not give justification about choice.
I wonder if it does not have something to do with the laying of rope ( Z and left is best, S and then right would be best? but may be that is a silly notion. I seems to remember far back in the mists of my memories, someone insisting on respecting as much as possible the laying of the rope when putting/laying a knot in place before tightening it)
Cheers!
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Sorry to have taken so long with "fishing techniques" links : had lost the files in the meanders of my PC HD. Here it is , dont know if it will meet expectations?
A VHS video to buy :
http://www.baladin.fr/production/peche_1_crabe.htm
16th to 20th fishing activity in Brittany ( french site , you will have to use an on-line tanslator if you do not read french easily)
http://www.chez.com/nautismeartsculture/maritime.htm
langouste (green) off Mauritania : http://www.port-musee.org/fr/a_flot/index2.htm
http://www.capitainedepeche.com/peche_a_la_langouste_verte.htm
http://philippe.malpertu.club.fr/langmaur.htm
http://www.chez.com/stavangercpce/prises.htm there is a pic of a crab pot
langouste (red) : http://www.mnhn.fr/mnhn/bimm/protection/fr/Especes/Fiches/Palinuruselephas.html
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Crabs are captured in "eaux territoriales" ( the international limits of the sovereignety of a country on its coastal waters) with pots but alos " flilets tremail" that is nets/tramail
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On google pictures with search words casier peche and a second search peche casiers
http://images.google.fr/images?svnum=10&hl=fr&lr=&cr=countryFR&q=p%C3%AAche++casier&btnG=Rechercher
Different sort of traps
http://www.ac-rouen.fr/ecoles/saint-ouen/voyage/crustave.htm
on Fishing techniques http://www.ac-grenoble.fr/ecole/blv.jean-moulin/dossiers/t-00-01/mer/sommaire/som-pech.htm
A picture of (one of)the way to install the pots
http://www.ac-grenoble.fr/ecole/blv.jean-moulin/dossiers/t-00-01/mer/peche/peche.htm#3
A close up : http://cyberechos.creteil.iufm.fr/cyber8/Invitation/peche/casierv.jpg
3 sort of traps ( depending of the fond nature ) : in Brittany sand and quite amlot of rocks : same that Pacific coast for USA)
Here http://sousleventdopale.free.fr/mareis.htm traps is for both crabs and lobsters ( but not Brittany)
Here http://villedegouesnou.site.voila.fr/des_villages_typiques.html Brittany : casiers / pots
Here http://www.agriculture.gouv.fr/pecheenligne/peche7.html "les casiers"
Here http://www.bys.fr/peche_casiers.html all sorts of casiers
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What we call "la crevette rose ( which in fact is greyish when alive and become rosy after boiling!) is captured in a cylindrical trap made of plastic netting, with a conical entry hole at each end.( name of that entry: "la gueule " )
[ beware a potential rude word in french outside this context of heraldy where it denote the color : red) that word would translate as "mug" as in "indeed he has an ugly mug" or "mug shot"] In fcat in ancient, normal french it only mean "aperture" as in "la gueule de l'enfer", it still denote in proper use the "mouth of a dog and carnivore animals]
A sort of "paste" -la boette-. (Ah , a beautiful specialized old word! still in use this one) made with the meat of different fishes is put in "la mangeoire ( the manger) which is in the middle at half distance of both entries.
Shrimps lured by "la boette" enter the pots and they are trapped. When you bring back the pot on board, you empty it by way of " a door" that you open.
Shrimps are put in a tank to be sorted out by size.
The kept ones are put in a seawater tank and kept alive till getting back to port where they will be sold " à la criee" (an auction sell only by shoutings !)
Pots are tied to ropes ( les filieres) at a regular 7 brasses interval ( french brasses=1.62 metters, not anglo-saon fathoms = 1.82 metters). series of 20 or 30 pots on a "filiere".
They are immersed and maintained on the bottom by grapling hooks, one at each extermity of the 20-30 pots string.
These ends are materialized on the surface by floats with flags.
Post are raised each day, shrimps are taken and post are laid once more. Each "casayeur" ( poters?) works with 400 to 800 pots ( 100 each hour)
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No I do not know the knots used. Will try to research that.
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A pot just taken on board is about to be emptied in a tank
Here http://www.letourduparc.fr/eco-peche-crevette.php
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Pots :
To capture tourteaux ( edible crabs I believe : Cancer pagurus ), lobsters, etrilles ( arcinus maenas : a sort of little green crabs living in rocks crags and nooks, very lively!), shrimps and allied, langouste they use pots ( or bow net and eel-pots).
Forms/shapes are quite varied using metallic or vegetal or plastic lattice/netting. Pots have conical entrance hole. This technique is also used ( or rather were) to capture fishes).
For Queen scallops ( coquille Saint-Jacques : Aequipecten opercularis ) they use dragnet. And ther is plenty of contraptions , the name of which I do not know in english ( and barely in french!) madrague, balance, carreler, verveux.....
Cheers