International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Practical Knots => Topic started by: knot4u on July 19, 2010, 05:52:31 PM

Title: Jug Sling
Post by: knot4u on July 19, 2010, 05:52:31 PM
Do you use this knot?

After learning to tie this knot, I use it occasionally for slinging a water bottle around my neck/torso.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_sling
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: roo on July 19, 2010, 08:04:16 PM
I usually try to find an alternate method of storage if an attached cord or rope will interfere with the use or maintenance of the object in question.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: skyout on July 19, 2010, 08:14:53 PM
I was given a ribbon lanyard with a bank's name on it at a car show one time. It had a rubber o'ring to attach onto the neck of a plastic water bottle. It worked like a charm, I just put it on my shoulder. I've been thinking of making a nice rope lanyard and doing the same thing.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: Pinrail on July 19, 2010, 08:36:36 PM
I have used it, and I'm sure I will use it again.
The jug sling is one that goes through periods of use and disuse with me, since it's one I usually have to "refresh" my memory on every now and then.  In my "arsenal" it tends to be a "niche knot."  It is exactly what I have needed in one situation... and then for another situation just wont' work as well as some other knot... no matter how badly I want to use it.

Regards,

Abr.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: Pinrail on July 19, 2010, 08:59:10 PM
Oddly enough...
I just stumbled upon this while surfing about for an unrelated knot. It looks to me like a jug sling is used on the end of this homemade sling.

http://www.primitiveways.com/plastic_bottle_sling.html (http://www.primitiveways.com/plastic_bottle_sling.html)

It looks interesting enough to warrant building...

Regards

Abr.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: DEE on July 19, 2010, 11:13:37 PM
I use this knot regularly but it is a bugger to teach to the kids. I have three drawings on how to tie, differently, it tucked away somewhere. The Asher Bottle Sling, "What Knot?" {G. Budworth & Richard Hopkins} p. 177 is much easier to tie and teach.
And it serves the purpose just as well. D
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: Rrok007 on July 20, 2010, 12:59:22 AM
Completely forgot about this knot. Here I was planning on using the plafond knot, tied around the neck of a bottle.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: dmacdd on July 20, 2010, 06:06:16 PM
I use this knot regularly but it is a bugger to teach to the kids. I have three drawings on how to tie, differently, it tucked away somewhere. The Asher Bottle Sling, "What Knot?" {G. Budworth & Richard Hopkins} p. 177 is much easier to tie and teach.
And it serves the purpose just as well. D

I have needed to sling a bottle very regularly three times a week for the last 12  or 14 weeks.  I alternated the jug sling and Asher's bottle sling for a few weeks, but recently I use only Asher's, because it seems to work just as well for my purpose, and it's quicker to tie.  I have known the jug sling for a very long time and the Asher's only a short time, but the Asher's sling has supplanted the jug sling in my affections for most uses.

Asher's sling could be described as a two-turn Prusik finished with a bull hitch.

[Deleted incorrect comment about photo 148H in CL Day's Art of Knotting and Splicing - dmacdd ]

I also experimented with a variety of exploding hitches to hang the slung bottle from a D ring on my shoulder bag. I seem to have fallen back on the old reliable slipped buntline. It seems to be easier to tie and more secure, even if it doesn't "explode". The pairing of Ashers's bottle sling with a slipped buntline hitch seems a particularly good one.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: knot4u on July 20, 2010, 07:46:12 PM
I use this knot regularly but it is a bugger to teach to the kids. I have three drawings on how to tie, differently, it tucked away somewhere. The Asher Bottle Sling, "What Knot?" {G. Budworth & Richard Hopkins} p. 177 is much easier to tie and teach.
And it serves the purpose just as well. D

I have to admit that the Jug Sling took quite a bit of practice to tie quickly.  At first, I needed two hands and one leg to tie it.  :-\
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: knot4u on July 20, 2010, 07:54:30 PM
I needed a Youtube video for learning the Jug Sling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB9sum_GyxE

This diagram is in my phone for recalling:

(http://i29.tinypic.com/23m7nf8.jpg)

Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: dmacdd on July 21, 2010, 06:06:05 AM

This diagram is in my phone for recalling:

(http://i29.tinypic.com/23m7nf8.jpg)



The above diagram seems complicated compared to the one in article 1142 of ABoK, attached.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: knot4u on July 21, 2010, 05:55:00 PM
The above diagram seems complicated compared to the one in article 1142 of ABoK, attached.

I'm open to hearing about easier methods, but I tried unsuccessfully to tie the jug sling using the diagram you posted.  Do you actually use that method?  Perhaps that method is why you prefer Asher's jug sling, as you indicated above.

Using the method I posted above in the video and the diagram, I can tie the jug sling in about 7 seconds.

I also experimented with a variety of exploding hitches to hang the slung bottle from a D ring on my shoulder bag. I seem to have fallen back on the old reliable slipped buntline. It seems to be easier to tie and more secure, even if it doesn't "explode". The pairing of Ashers's bottle sling with a slipped buntline hitch seems a particularly good one.

If I'm hanging a bottle of something that's worth $20 or more, I'd rather not use any kind of slipped knot.  The Jug Sling holds and untying is not easy, which is what I want.

Is your main dislike of the Jug Sling that you can't tie it quickly?
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: Rrok007 on July 21, 2010, 06:48:35 PM
Maybe I'm just reading the diagrams wrong but I don't find either of those working for me. I know I've seen a set of instructions somewhere that made it seem quick and easy, just can't remember where.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: knot4u on July 21, 2010, 07:21:59 PM
Maybe I'm just reading the diagrams wrong but I don't find either of those working for me. I know I've seen a set of instructions somewhere that made it seem quick and easy, just can't remember where.

Use the video I posted.  The diagram I posted is for recalling the video.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: dmacdd on July 21, 2010, 11:47:11 PM

I'm open to hearing about easier methods, but I tried unsuccessfully to tie the jug sling using the diagram you posted.  Do you actually use that method?  Perhaps that method is why you prefer Asher's jug sling, as you indicated above.

Using the method I posted above in the video and the diagram, I can tie the jug sling in about 7 seconds.


I do use that method. I can perform it in 20 seconds. I suspect the difference between  us is not due to the difference in methods. :-)  This knot is complicated enough that how you hold your fingers as you make the knot is very important in managing the evolving complexity of the knot. I think I'll make a video to show how I do it. I put some effort into developing hand motions that keep the knot from confusing me in the final stages.

I have two issues with the jug sling for my most frequent uses: 1) Even when well practiced it is complicated compared to the Asher bottle sling, so takes more concentration, but the result is no better for my applications. 2) If you use a preformed closed loop, it's tricky to get the two handles even. If you want really short handles with a preformed closed loop it's even tricker.  With the Asher bottle knot, if you want a short handle for a standard bottle, to clip onto a carabiner, for example, you just use a preformed closed loop designed for the diameter of the bottle, and there is no fiddling.

Quote

If I'm hanging a bottle of something that's worth $20 or more, I'd rather not use any kind of slipped knot.  The Jug Sling holds and untying is not easy, which is what I want.   

I use the buntline hitch to suspend the bottle from a D ring without using a biner. The buntline hitch is not part of the gripping of the bottle.  Either sling can be used with a preformed closed loop that can be hooked onto something or clipped onto a biner.
Quote

Is your main dislike of the Jug Sling that you can't tie it quickly?

See above.

I just realized something. I'm using a slipped buntline made with the two free ends of the Asher sling in order to keep the slack between the D ring and the bottle to a minimum. Clipping conventionally into the D ring with a biner made the assembly too dangly.

But if I use a short custom closed rope (the other meaning of _sling_) to make an Asher, I can poke the very short handle of the Asher through the D ring and use the biner only to keep it from slipping back out.  That way I can keep the slack as short as I can make the handle of the Asher.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: Rrok007 on July 22, 2010, 12:41:37 AM
Okay, I've spent a good part of the day looking at this, trying to figure why I can't get this one. Cabn't see the video at work, and those diagrams weren't helping.

I was trying to hard....

After looking at it, it seems to me that the easiest way to tie this uses a bight, a loop, and some weaving. I'm still at work so I can't yet post pictures untill I get home. But basically, after forming a bight, I take the working end (right side) and form a loop clockwise behind the standing end and the bight, bringing the working end around to the front, and laying it over the loop. This would be almost as if I were tying an overhand knot around the bight. The standing end is then woven counter-clockwise around the knot, first over the working end, down under the line laying next to it, then up and on top of the bight, which brings it back over to the left side of the knot. It then goes down under loop that was formed by the working end, back up over itself, back under the loop formed by the working end, and over itself again.

I know that sounds complicated, but once I post the pictures, I can show how easy it really is. I've tried tying a couple of times this way and it's pretty quick and easy, and there's no fumbling to it.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: dmacdd on July 22, 2010, 03:08:23 AM
OK, as promised, here's the video of how I make a jug sling by the method shown in ABoK 1142:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5nvzox5zYA

But check out this amazing method, which does seem to be making the same knot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqdKyhY9X30&feature=related
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: dmacdd on July 22, 2010, 04:26:44 PM

I just realized something. I'm using a slipped buntline made with the two free ends of the Asher sling in order to keep the slack between the D ring and the bottle to a minimum. Clipping conventionally into the D ring with a biner made the assembly too dangly.

But if I use a short custom closed rope (the other meaning of _sling_) to make an Asher, I can poke the very short handle of the Asher through the D ring and use the biner only to keep it from slipping back out.  That way I can keep the slack as short as I can make the handle of the Asher.

See the photo attached to see how I use a short-handled Asher bottle sling locked into the D ring on my shoulder bag with a carabiner used as a toggle.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: roo on July 22, 2010, 04:48:35 PM
But check out this amazing method, which does seem to be making the same knot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqdKyhY9X30&feature=related
I don't think it can be the same Jug Sling.  Try to untie the Jug Sling without access to the two ends or the bight loop.  In other words, try doing the reverse of what is shown in the video. 
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: Rrok007 on July 22, 2010, 06:49:28 PM
I'm gonna try to post a video tonight of the way I described above later tonight when I get home from work.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: knot4u on July 22, 2010, 07:39:53 PM
But check out this amazing method, which does seem to be making the same knot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqdKyhY9X30&feature=related
I don't think it can be the same Jug Sling.  Try to untie the Jug Sling without access to the two ends or the bight loop.  In other words, try doing the reverse of what is shown in the video.  

Correct, it's NOT the same Jug Sling.  I need access to at least one end or the bight loop in order to untie the Jug Sling in the original post.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: dmacdd on July 23, 2010, 01:25:57 AM
I could not find a really clear YouTube video for the Asher Bottle Sling, so here's mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LXKpnIZ94o
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: knot4u on July 23, 2010, 03:01:41 AM
Thank you for the video.  Here's another video for the Asher Jug Sling:

http://www.ehow.com/video_4411910_tie-asher-jug-sling.html
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: Transminator on July 23, 2010, 08:11:00 AM
I could not find a really clear YouTube video for the Asher Bottle Sling, so here's mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LXKpnIZ94o

Thanks!

That makes it clear. Its basically a cow hitch and a bull hitch.

For the bottle sling, I found this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18jr4UY0CKs&feature=related
He explains and demonstrates it very well.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: dmacdd on July 23, 2010, 01:37:34 PM
Thank you for the video.  Here's another video for the Asher Jug Sling:

http://www.ehow.com/video_4411910_tie-asher-jug-sling.html

But that's a completely different knot!!

Which is the real Asher bottle sling??

I have no idea.   

I don't even know anymore where I learned the Asher sling a couple of years ago.  If mine, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LXKpnIZ94o,  is wrong, I must have just assumed that it was meant to be finished with a bull hitch. Which is more secure than the knot you cited. Too secure? I have used it quite a bit and don't find it onerous to untie. But the knot finished with a mere twist is easier to untie, but would seem to be much more prone to shaking loose.

Does someone have a copy of Asher's book?

 
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: Rrok007 on July 23, 2010, 02:15:33 PM
okay... here's the youtube vid of the method I just kinda figured out on how to tie the jug sling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtK2XTHhvg8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtK2XTHhvg8)

Forgive me if it's not the best video, it was done with my roomie holding the camera phone.


I'm not stupid enough to think it's the best way to do it. I will say that the method does open some doors. For instance, I have a little pour bottle with a handle and a stopper on it. Using the technique shown, I can actually use the bight on the jug sling knot around the neck of the bottle inside the handle, or just around the handle itself, and then the jug sling knot goes around the stopper itself. This ties the stopper to the bottle in a fashion that it can be opened, but I don't have to put the stopper down anywhere.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: knot4u on July 23, 2010, 03:53:59 PM
Thank you for the video.  Here's another video for the Asher Jug Sling:

http://www.ehow.com/video_4411910_tie-asher-jug-sling.html

But that's a completely different knot!!

Which is the real Asher bottle sling??

I have no idea.  

I don't even know anymore where I learned the Asher sling a couple of years ago.  If mine, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LXKpnIZ94o,  is wrong, I must have just assumed that it was meant to be finished with a bull hitch. Which is more secure than the knot you cited. Too secure? I have used it quite a bit and don't find it onerous to untie. But the knot finished with a mere twist is easier to untie, but would seem to be much more prone to shaking loose.

Does someone have a copy of Asher's book?

 

You're right.  They are different.  For whatever reason, I was tying them the same.  As long as your knot doesn't jam, then it's not too secure.  There's no sense in being unduly stressed out when using a knot to hang a bottle of whatever.
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: knot4u on July 23, 2010, 04:06:23 PM
okay... here's the youtube vid of the method I just kinda figured out on how to tie the jug sling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtK2XTHhvg8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtK2XTHhvg8)

Forgive me if it's not the best video, it was done with my roomie holding the camera phone.


I'm not stupid enough to think it's the best way to do it. I will say that the method does open some doors. For instance, I have a little pour bottle with a handle and a stopper on it. Using the technique shown, I can actually use the bight on the jug sling knot around the neck of the bottle inside the handle, or just around the handle itself, and then the jug sling knot goes around the stopper itself. This ties the stopper to the bottle in a fashion that it can be opened, but I don't have to put the stopper down anywhere.

It's interesting how everybody learns differently. I agree that your method provides more options for tying things.  I'd call that a "versatile method".  It's not a quick and easy method for me, but I suppose one could become fast with that method with practice.  Do you need to lay the rope on a table, or was that just for the camera?
Title: Re: Jug Sling
Post by: Rrok007 on July 23, 2010, 04:21:01 PM
That was just for the camera. I've tied it a few times by hand already, including once around a bottle and it's stopper. I'll see if I can use the webcam to show doing it by hand.

Yeah, we all learn differently, for me, the diagrams folks posted are just way too complicated for me.

The funny thing is, This morning before I got up, I noticed how, the jug sling knot looks like someone took a 4bight-3lead turks head and just made the middle leads on one side extend out quite a bit, and never tucked the end into the knot.... then just after I posted my video, I saw another video where the creator pointed out about the same thing, noting that from the side, it looked like a turk's head knot.