International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum
General => Chit Chat => Topic started by: tallwine on November 22, 2008, 10:14:09 PM
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You will need the latest version of Firefox to view this. Go to http://data.oreilly.com/jallwine/knots (http://data.oreilly.com/jallwine/knots)
No interweaves yet but most anything else you want to do with a turkshead is there.
Let me know what you think.
-Tim
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Hi Tim,
Wow, brilliant utility.
How about some help files - for example, what does the Coding field do?
Derek
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Help is on the way soon. Coding refers to the overs and unders. It determines the look of the knot. Try \\// and parts = 7 and bights = 6 for example.
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Aha, I thought it was the letter V so I had been trying other letters to no avail, but using \ and / I have been 'playing' for best part of an hour now. I can see this thread blooming into a 'recipe' collection of "try 11 7 /\,\/" (the ',' is there to denot a space between the two \ \ characters).
You have probably created the definitive TH designer tool. With ready access to such an easy to use tool, I am sure the glory (or maybe gory) of THs will blossom and many, many folks will be encouraged to make some of these lovely finishes.
A little Googling for 'Tim Allwine' has listed a certain Senior Software Engineer with a Nautical and Knottical background, would this be your good self by any chance? I noticed the impressive table of decorative knots at the Maker Faire 2006, and I guess that if this is you, then the knotting world is lucky to have a Software Engineer who has a knotting fettish and can turn his hand to create such a landmark utility.
As a software engineer, you will be well aware of the situation, that once you start to give tools to folks that they find useful, it is not long before they start to inundate you with requests for embellishments.
Well, in case you have not already thought of them, here are three for you to consider.
First, the facility to 'fix' a chosen number of edge crossings into a single over/under configuration in order to ensure a stable final knot.
Second, the facility to create a library of settings, so if I discover a particularly attractive setting, then I can save it to my library and then share my library with others (probably on this thread).
NB I have noticed that if I create a TH and then put the page into my bookmarks then the details go with it - nice touch as a means of sharing patterns i.e. http://data.oreilly.com/jallwine/knots/?show_colors=true&strand_width=20&over_color=red&coding=%2F\%20\%2F (http://data.oreilly.com/jallwine/knots/?show_colors=true&strand_width=20&over_color=red&coding=%2F\%20\%2F)
Third ask and the biggest one - what are the chances of having the utility 'Stand Alone', so that it can be used even when the user does not have internet connection? I have noted that if I Scrapbook the page, then it no longer works so I cannot use it if I do not have a live internet connection.
Enough for now, thank you so much for this excellent creation, I am off for another 'play'.
PS. Mel, could we put a link to Tim's page onto the Guild website please?
Derek
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Hi Tim,
What is the logic behind the Coding function please.
The coding string \/,//,,\\,\/
gave this layout http://data.oreilly.com/jallwine/knots/?show_colors=true&strand_width=20&over_color=red&parts=20&coding=\%2F%2C%2F%2F%2C%2C\\%2C\%2F (http://data.oreilly.com/jallwine/knots/?show_colors=true&strand_width=20&over_color=red&parts=20&coding=\%2F%2C%2F%2F%2C%2C\\%2C\%2F)
The spaces (,) seem to be all important and give rise to highly complex systems.
Derek
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Hi Tim,
Sorry, me again.
In long runs i.e. a 47 x 6, is there any way of denoting that the cord makes n turns before finishing up at its destination pin? in the exapmple
http://data.oreilly.com/jallwine/knots/?show_colors=true&strand_width=5&over_color=red&parts=47&coding=%2F\%2C%2C%2C%2F%2F%2F&bights=6 (http://data.oreilly.com/jallwine/knots/?show_colors=true&strand_width=5&over_color=red&parts=47&coding=%2F\%2C%2C%2C%2F%2F%2F&bights=6)
it makes three full turns before mating up with pin 6.
Also, in this example, although the graphic seems to be correct in that the very last run from top pin 1 should go O1 U4 O4 U4 O4 etc. the tabulated last run list goes from top pin 1 U4 O1 U7 O1 U7 O1 U7 O1 U7 O1 U7 O1 U1 to bottom pin 1
Am I reading this wrong??
Derek
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OK, learning on the run...
Strike the above request for turn count, I have just spotted that using the half cycle function it is easy to step through the sequences and it is immediately clear how many turns to make on long THs.
Derek
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Ah, I just tried to attach a zip file but the web site doesn't like zip files.
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Go here:
http://data.oreilly.com/tim/knots/knots.zip (http://data.oreilly.com/tim/knots/knots.zip)
Unzip the file. Use your browser and open the file index.html and you should be all set to go off line. You can also use this code to make up a page on this/your web site. This code is free, have at it.
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Ron Edwards,
Center Zig Zag 25pX6b
Coding; \/\/\/\///\\\///\/\/\/\
http://khww.net/gridmaker/?parts=25&bights=6&coding=\%2F\%2F\%2F\%2F%2F%2F\\\%2F%2F%2F\%2F\%2F\%2F\&strand_width=28&swap_bight_order=true&over_color=peru&miter_color=peru&sobre=true&height=280&width=600&under_color=peru&orient=horizontal (http://khww.net/gridmaker/?parts=25&bights=6&coding=\%2F\%2F\%2F\%2F%2F%2F\\\%2F%2F%2F\%2F\%2F\%2F\&strand_width=28&swap_bight_order=true&over_color=peru&miter_color=peru&sobre=true&height=280&width=600&under_color=peru&orient=horizontal)
Gives this output;
(http://khww.net/forum/attachments/centerzigzag25p6b.png)
This is one awsome tool. I love it.
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This goes a little better and ties that loose edge in.
http://khww.net/gridmaker/?parts=25&bights=6&coding=\%2F\%2F\%2F\%2F%2F%2F\\\%2F%2F%2F\%2F\%2F\%2F\%2F&strand_width=28&swap_bight_order=true&over_color=peru&miter_color=peru&sobre=true&height=280&width=600&under_color=peru&orient=horizontal (http://khww.net/gridmaker/?parts=25&bights=6&coding=\%2F\%2F\%2F\%2F%2F%2F\\\%2F%2F%2F\%2F\%2F\%2F\%2F&strand_width=28&swap_bight_order=true&over_color=peru&miter_color=peru&sobre=true&height=280&width=600&under_color=peru&orient=horizontal)
Centre ZigZag 25 x 6
Coding; \/\/\/\///\\\///\/\/\/\/
(http://knotcyphers.pbwiki.com/f/25x6%20ZigZag.png)
Derek
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You see Tim,
It is starting already, folks will want to swap designs and today it is just a little clumsy.
The facility to simply name a design and drop it into a catalogue is going to be be very useful indeed so that whole catalogues can be exchanged through the forum.
BTW, thanks for the 'stand alone' version. I unzipped the files and folders and put them into a folder on my memory stick, then put a shortcut onto the laptop desktop to the htm file and bingo - it works a treat.
Derek
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So play with saving and managing your bookmarks. It will be these bookmarks that can be used and shared. We'll look into making this easy.
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Thanks Derek. I did'nt see that.
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Thanks Tim,
Yes, I already have a number of new folders in my bookmarks sidebar for different families and styles of designs and have been renaming the bookmarks to make them more meaningful.
I thought I was on to a winner when I simply tried to drag the bookmark folder onto the desktop, I had the small + icon indicating that windows was going to make a copy of the folder on my desktop and of course, I could then have sent that to other users. Unfortunately, when I dropped the drag, nothing happened until the third try when Firefox died on me. At least it was a consistent fault that I repeated a couple of times.
I guess I will just have to make do with pasting the full urls into a text file and share those until you dream up something better.
This is one powerful tool
Thanks
Derek
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Having a play trying to recreate the lovely interwoven two strand '16 x 6' chevron (Brian Kidd ?)
I think the starting point is here for the first colour -
http://data.oreilly.com/jallwine/knots/?bights=3&parts=8&coding=%2F%2F%2F%2F\\\\&sobre=true&over_color=peru&under_color=silver&miter_color=peru (http://data.oreilly.com/jallwine/knots/?bights=3&parts=8&coding=%2F%2F%2F%2F\\\\&sobre=true&over_color=peru&under_color=silver&miter_color=peru)
(http://knotcyphers.pbwiki.com/f/3x8%20chev.png)
Then start with the second cord on the bottom between 1 and 2 and follow the track but use the simple rule 'Over overs and under unders' - the first four cord you cross are overs, so go over them, the next four are unders so go under them coming out on the top between pins 2 and 3. Turn and cross over the top of the next three overs, but then notice the very next cord is the first run of the second colour and it is 'under' so pass under it, then back over the fourth and under the next four unders - and so on to the end.
It actually creates the second colour chevron in the opposite direction
Derek
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Dear All,
Tim brought this thread to my attention as part of the website review feedback.
I apologise that I didn't notice it at the time; it coincided with my Mother coming to live with us while she was seriously ill, and so I missed Derek's request to add it to the Download page. I've flagged it up for Mel to do the technical bit.
Thanks, Tim, for your courteous reminder :) I'm also putting a note on the Computing Board to say it's there.
Regards
Glenys
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Thanks Gleyns,
Tim showed us how to use the grid maker for the single strand Matthew Walker knot, too. It's really an awesome tool!!!
http://khww.net/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=717&highlight=single&pid=6816#post_6816 (http://khww.net/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=717&highlight=single&pid=6816#post_6816)
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Here's a version I have not let out to the public yet.
(http://khww.net/images/photoalbum/album_1/jj1.jpg)
(http://khww.net/images/photoalbum/album_1/jj2.jpg)
Grid is by TJ Bartruff... I just modified the grid to what I needed for my uses.
I did not make the Chevron though. I chose to stay with the simple at the time of creating these little monsters for the simple purpose of mass production, sort of.
Brian...
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Cool Brian; is that a cork layer on top of a hard (wood or pvc) dowel so you can use stick pins??? Ingenious!
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I was not the first to think of that. The Abook gave me the idea to roll some cork around a mailing tube.
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http://www.igkt.net/downloads/ (http://www.igkt.net/downloads/)
It would be nice to be able to add some credits to this program. Also, is it open source or just freely distributable?
I also noted that there are 2 missing closing </div> in the index.html - 1 to close the last sub-panel and the final one to close the panel wrapper. Corrected in the online version if you just want to grab the source of that page.
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You can only use it with Fire Fox Browser. Open source I don't know. But I do have it for download on KHWW. Credits should go to Tim Allwine & Son...
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Thanks. I've updated http://www.igkt.net/downloads/ (http://www.igkt.net/downloads/) with the credits and browser info.
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Hi,
I realle like the Turkshead tying program.
I have one question though. In the Diagram I can fill in Width and Height but what does it mean? Is it inches, mm, cm? Because I print the template I can not make out what size it is?
Thanks,
Erik
(Netherlands)
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It's in pixels. I have a website I use to help with conversion from pixels to inches.
http://mystic-nights.com/poser/tools/pixels-to-inches.html (http://mystic-nights.com/poser/tools/pixels-to-inches.html)
:)
Hi,
I realle like the Turkshead tying program.
I have one question though. In the Diagram I can fill in Width and Height but what does it mean? Is it inches, mm, cm? Because I print the template I can not make out what size it is?
Thanks,
Erik
(Netherlands)
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Thanks, this is most helpfull.
Cheers. ;D
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I found an even more nicer converter. Here you can convert everything.
http://www.unitconversion.org/unit_converter/typography.html
enjoy.
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Yep that one is better.
I found an even more nicer converter. Here you can convert everything.
http://www.unitconversion.org/unit_converter/typography.html
enjoy.
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The program is really nice, but the cookbooks and tools at knottool.com is good for tying the more complicated turk heads. You can get your own designs from the program and tie them on the tools. Highly recommended stuff... :)
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Hi,
can somebody help me explain the following?
I'm trying to figure out how to use gridmaker for a gaucho weave.
I found out that I can use the following coding to make a perfect grid: \\//
But is it possible to use gridmaker to make a gaucho weave with two colors?
(For instance to make a /\/\/\ pattern)
I have a book of David Morgan with lots of information how to tie a gaucho knot.
One of his gaucho knots is based on a 4B 5P turks head.
Then he "weaves" with a loose strand to make the gaucho knot, he calls it the 8B 10P gaucho knot?
Is this correct? Because this knot I cannot make with the grid maker.
Can somebody explain this to me?
Thanks,
Erik
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You can make a gaucho weave with the grid maker. But, you will only be able to do that gaucho with one color, or one single string. The grid maker does not support 2 string versions of interweaves yet. I know that the creators of the grid maker were expressing to me that they had 2 string version in the works. No release date set as of yet.
My best advice is if you wish to pursue the gaucho interweave like you are now, with 2 color strings, then make the base turks head of 5p 4b and then do the interweave as shown in your book. You could also make the single string version on the grid maker and keep the strings far enough apart to see how the knot is built.
For all intensive purposes you could always make the single string version with the grid maker and just tie the turks head part in one color and then tie the interweave. Start the interweave at the same end your standing end is located at and go from there following the grid pattern.
Brian...
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Anyone think they could figure the code out for this puppy?http://knottool.com/pics/image020.jpg
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From 1 . . . . . . . . . . to 2
From 2 . . . . . . . . . . to 3
From 3 . . . . . . . . . . to 4
From 4 O . . . . . . . . . to 5
From 5 O . . . . . . . . . to 6
From 6 U O . . . . . . . . to 7
From 7 O O . . . . . . . . to 8
From 8 U U U . . . . . . . to 9
From 9 U U O . . . . . . . to 10
From 10 O U U U . . . . . . to 11
From 11 O U U U . . . . . . to 12
From 12 O O O U U . . . . . to 13
From 13 O O O U U . . . . . to 14
From 14 U U O O O U . . . . to 15
From 15 U O O O O U . . . . to 16
From 16 U O U U O O O . . . to 17
From 17 U U U O O O O . . . to 18
From 18 U U U O U U O O . . to 19
From 19 O O U U U O O O . . to 20
From 20 O U U U U O U U O . to 21
From 21 O O O O U U U O O . to 22
From 22 O O O U U U U O U U to 23
From 23 U U O O O O U U U O to 24
From 24 U U O O O U U U U O to 1
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Omg thank you so much! How bout this?http://knottool.com/pics/image030.jpg also is it the same as the over six under six lanyard knot? If not does anyone know how to tie that? I'm dying to learn these. Thanks!
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Also, just realized you have 24 pins listed. I'm confused. How many do I need on top and on bottom? I'm guessing 12? Sorry confusing instructions.
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12 on top 12 on bottom.
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That is a 4 pass Gaucho Knot.
Parts: 9 Bights: 10
Size (inches): 3.5444 inches (1.1282 inch diameter) x 1.7222 inches
Size (cm): 9.0029 cm (2.8657 cm diameter) x 4.3744 cm
Strands: 1
Crossings: 80
Facets: 20
Coding Options: Row Coding - OOOOUUUU
From 1 . . . . . . . . to 2
From 2 . . . . . . . . to 3
From 3 . . . . . . . . to 4
From 4 O . . . . . . . to 5
From 5 O . . . . . . . to 6
From 6 O O . . . . . . to 7
From 7 O O . . . . . . to 8
From 8 O O O . . . . . to 9
From 9 O O O . . . . . to 10
From 10 O O O O . . . . to 11
From 11 O O O O . . . . to 12
From 12 O O O O U . . . to 13
From 13 O O O O U . . . to 14
From 14 O O O O U U . . to 15
From 15 O O O O U U . . to 16
From 16 O O O O U U U . to 17
From 17 O O O O U U U . to 18
From 18 O O O O U U U U to 19
From 19 O O O O U U U U to 20
From 20 O O O O U U U U to 1
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Thank you a billion. As for the 12 bight knot. How to arrange? Just don't wanna spend too much time poking holes in my paper towel roll thereby damaging how well it holds my thumb tacks.
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Also the way your listing it confuses me. I usually have say 10 pins on top and botbottom each numbered one through ten. So when you say from 1 to 20 I really don't understand how to set them up.
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From pin 1 to Pin 2
From pin 2 to Pin 3
and so on.
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OK but how to arrange them? Doesn't make any sense. Usually I got from bottom pin one to top pin 2 to bottom pin whatever. There's set spots for them. I have no idea. I tried alternating so 1 was on bottom then 2 on top but sskipping a pin. Nothing iveI've tried makes any sense. Got a pic maybe? I'm ususing a cylindrical mandrel not turks head tool.
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Here's a pic of my mandrel.http://postimg.org/image/yfpz3743z/
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Sigh. Why waste the time to post tedious step by step instructions, twice but not explain your method of using pins. The normal method me and everyone else I know of is the same method gridmaker uses. 1-20 makes no sense to me. If its a ten bight knot id have 1-10 on top and 1-10 on bottom and the numbers would mirror each other.
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I don't use any of your methods. But don't you think having a "1" in two places, creates a conflict?
This is how I'd interpret the instructions:
Top row
1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19
Bottom row
14 16 18 20 2 4 6 8 10 12
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Yeah I tried that :/ didn't work. It doesn't create a conflict by the way when the instructions say from top 1 to bottom 1. I dunno. This is frustrating though. If anyone has turks head cook book and could take a pic of the "run list" or diagram whatever you wanna call it. Or if dude wants to explain how to place the pins. Would be eternally grateful.
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Also typically I dont use pins. I just tie a Turks head freehand then interweave either gaucho or herringbone.
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This is just a sample DUDE.
See attached image.
4pass spanish ring knot.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Th6rudWlfIY/VEF2aiwf3II/AAAAAAAAAe4/aDVJ2lK3OyM/w319-h175-no/4PassRingKnot.jpg)
From 1 . . . . . . . . to 2
From 2 . . . . . . . . to 3
From 3 . . . . . . . . to 4
From 4 O . . . . . . . to 5
From 5 O . . . . . . . to 6
From 6 O O . . . . . . to 7
From 7 O O . . . . . . to 8
From 8 O O O . . . . . to 9
From 9 O O O . . . . . to 10
From 10 O O O O . . . . to 11
From 11 O O O O . . . . to 12
From 12 O O O O U . . . to 13
From 13 O O O O U . . . to 14
From 14 O O O O U U . . to 15
From 15 O O O O U U . . to 16
From 16 O O O O U U U . to 17
From 17 O O O O U U U . to 18
From 18 O O O O U U U U to 19
From 19 O O O O U U U U to 20
From 20 O O O O U U U U to 1
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I see.hence why I was confused. No clear instruction on where to put which numbers. This image helps a lot. Image helps a lot. Thanks bro.
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Also I'd like to ask if you knew the coding for gridmaker for this kind of knot? The //\\ dashes if you will.
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Also if you don't k ow the grid maker coding think you could post a pic of that 12 bight knot you have me isiinstructions on please? That way I'll have both the ones I need and I can recode it the way I uusually do it, or just learn how the sequential pin method works. Thanks bro.
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Pretty sure I figured out the grid maker codcoding for those two. The 4 pass is just \\\\////. And the other one is /\\\///\ . for the 4 pass make sure partparts is set to 9. Still messing with it.