International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum
General => Practical Knots => Topic started by: mikehirst on July 07, 2008, 05:40:38 PM
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I have two heavy boxes (approx. 14" x 14" x 8.5") which I would like to tie together so they can be carried. I've been experimenting with using a diamond hitch tied to a small pallet. This does what I want, but it adds to the weight. What I'm looking for is something like a diamond hitch, squaw hitch or other pack hitch, that I can tie using rope only. I'd be interested to hear what ties forum members can suggest.
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> ... so that they can be carried
"Carried" how? --e.g., by hoisting using the binding itself, perhaps?
First of all, if you can, it would be better to find some FLAT material,
e.g., cable-hauling polyester tape, for the binding, as that will better
go around the (presumed) sharply square edges of the boxes.
(With the advent of "wiring" everyone for Net access, there is now
an abundance of such tape about, at least in some populous areas.)
Another idea is tensioning with small wedges per side.
A quick simple structure could be two tape slings (circles of tape)
sized so that they each wrap up from the bottom around two sides
(assuming the odd / short dimension will be depth to a square box),
and then can be tensioned tight with some appropriate cord
pulling each sling's two bight-ends together.
--dl*
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The best advice I have come across for binding and carrying boxes came from here http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/002825.php (http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/002825.php)
The method uses modern materials and fixings and reflects Dan's approach to using flat strapping which improves load spreading into the box corners.
Derek
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I have two heavy boxes (approx. 14" x 14" x 8.5") which I would like to tie together so they can be carried. I've been experimenting with using a diamond hitch tied to a small pallet. This does what I want, but it adds to the weight. What I'm looking for is something like a diamond hitch, squaw hitch or other pack hitch, that I can tie using rope only. I'd be interested to hear what ties forum members can suggest.
You might look this over:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/boxsling.html
The mating plane of the two boxes should be parallel to the page, of course. The blue rope could lead to a bar for handling purposes, but then again, perhaps you didn't have a suspended setup in mind.
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Hello Mike,
I agree with Derek and Dan's solution of using tape, but sense that you want the objects (boxes) to stay together rather than simple lifting, hence your suggestion of using a pallet, which then adds weight, to carry the boxes. What is the weight that you are containing, in terms of number of pounds or kilos?
SR
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Thankyou for your useful suggestions. It might be useful if I say a bit more about what it is that I want to do.
I have three boxes:
(http://mikehirst.netfirms.com/images/box.jpg)
The boxes are all the same size (approx. 14" x 14" x 8.5"); they are all made of metal; the boxes, with contents, all weigh somewhere in the region of 15lb. I have to carry the boxes on a journey by train. Through the course of the journey I will have to change trains four or five times. The problem is that I have three boxes and only two hands. I am looking for a way to tie two of the boxes together so that they can be carried in one hand, the other hand being free carry the third.
following Dan's suggestion I have been experimenting with using various kinds of slings. The barrel sling is very effective, the box sling suggested by roo would also work.
As I write this it has also occurred to me that there may be a solution using a pole which passes through two or more of the boxes (the boxes may need to be lashed together.
I must admit, this has become something of an obsession. I've had great fun over the past two days, messing around with two boxes and a length of rope. I've worked my way through most of my knot, backwoods and bush craft books looking for a solution, but I haven't yet found anything that refers specifically to my problem.
I think I'm going to go with the barrel sling as a light weight, portable solution, but I'm still interested to hear any other solutions, that people can come up with.
Best wishes
Mike
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Hello Mike,
If you already have handles on the tops of each of the boxes then you might try using a simple loop of about 3 feet (closed length i.e. a little over six feet of line) and pass the loop through one handle as a Lark's head, bringing the other end of the loop through the other handle and then back to the first handle, then wrapping that loop end around the doubled loop lines (four of them) as a series of half-hitches. The length of three feet will allow for the 14-inches between the boxes to be spanned and having a sufficient length to allow for a small but helpful angle of suspension, perhaps not quite 60 degrees but you may be able to adjust the length by a few more inches if you start with a length of eight feet. The line, as four passes, should be of a diameter that is comfortable to carry and may be as thin as 3/16-inches or as thick as 3/8-inches, depending on distance involved and the toughness of your hands. The handle is then readily dismounted at journey's end. The third box then will be carried as you suggest.
SR
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Hello Mike,
If you already have handles on the tops of each of the boxes ...
To expand on this theme, if you join the two handles by a few feet of wide enough webbing, it should be comfortable enough to sling over your shoulder. But I won't make any predictions on the metal boxes bouncing off the side of your hip. ;D
P.S. If you don't have webbing, this hitch may be used to join your rope to a towel or piece of fabric for your shoulder:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/sailorhitches.html
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Side-adjacent boxes as I understand their dimensions would be 28" x ...,
not terribly handy to move about, esp. among others & in a train;
whereas stacked, they are 14" square 17" deep (although now we
can wonder at how comfortably a box sits/stacks upon another's
handled top!?).
:)
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Side-adjacent boxes as I understand their dimensions would be 28" x ...,
not terribly handy to move about, esp. among others & in a train;
whereas stacked, they are 14" square 17" deep (although now we
can wonder at how comfortably a box sits/stacks upon another's
handled top!?).
:)
I'm not entirely clear as to which dimension is which, regarding length, width and height. I'd tend to think that the last dimension would be height. With the variety of options the original poster has, he should be able to mix and match approaches to fit the orientation of boxes that seems the most ergonomic. Even if the handles end up being on the side, he might still be able to use them as attach points.
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I think using tape might be a problem if you will need to dissassemble your boxes to store them in the overhead bin. Different trains may have different shaped storage bins, and therefore the need to break down your package, and them reassemble as you dash between trains.
I thought at first the securing them to wheels (a hand truck or similar) might help moving them about, but at a weight of <50 Lbs, should not be a problem to manhandle as needed.
There is a product I have always refered to a "motorcycle tie downs" which are available in larger hardware and auto stores. It is nylon webbing with a hook on either end, and a compression gizmo for shortening the distance of the strap. Typically sold in pairs, they could be used to rapidly secure the boxes when you line them up. I think that if the boxes are lined up with the handles perpendicular, you would be able to run the strap through the handles for additional security. While this is not a knotted solution, the straps are relatively cheap, very durable, and may have other uses around the house, or in the back of a pick-up truck.
If you want to use ropes and knots, I think that your experimentation of knots before you embark will be your best guide. There are many different knots that would all work well to secure your load. Find one that is easy to tie, then haul your package to the kitchen and back to make sure it meets your needs. And have a wonderful trip.
Pat
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I think using tape might be a problem if you will need to dissassemble your boxes
... It is nylon webbing ...
Oh, the confusion is re "tape" (as contrasted with e.g. "adhesive tape"): what I et al.
mean here is "flat material, webbing". (--seemed "tape" maybe was more of a
European useage, although I think I noticed something recently that suggested
there was a size discrimination, and tape was small webbing, as cord is to rope.)
In addition to better handling (bending around/over) the right-angle corners of
the boxes, tape/webbing also is kinder to the hands/wrists when carrying.
Cord, however, makes for better knotting and so works well in this situation
for tensioning & joining the webbing slings. (And any knoTyer must have some
bit of cord at hand to fiddle with!)
--dl*
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