Responsibility or culpability

[Mrs Glenys Chew]

Dear All

It is a black question I have faced this weekend.

On Friday, a 6 year old boy in our town was playing a game, the full details of which I do not know.  But it involved a skipping rope, a bannister rail, and jumping.  I understand that after a few jumps, the rope slipped from his waist to his chest or higher, and he broke his neck, dying instantly.  [Various news reports are giving a different version, but the skipping rope and death remain the same. Edited by G Chew, 17.7.07]

I do not know the family personally, but I do know a member of the boy's school.

Setting aside all the considerations which immediately spring to mind and taking the situation at its most basic, I have faced this question this weekend:

     I want to teach children about simple decorative knotting, and therefore simple ropecraft (my recent post were in "simple lanyards in knitted polypropylene" and "Recruiting new members?").  Am I right to do so, or am I inviting trouble and censure?

My own son might very well have suffered the same fate as this child, as he rigged up a rope swing on his 6-foot high climbing frame, the summer before I knew the Guild.  My 3 year old daughter could have suffered it now, as she stole cord from my formerly accessible knot bag and ran off with it when my back was turned.  Considering the unpredictability of child (or adult, even) mentality, I remember that about a year ago, a 14 year old murdered an 11 year old in a house near our church.  He used a knife, what if he had chosen some other method - the crime was premeditated and carefully planned, involving faked letters from teachers.  I seem to remember a news story of a girl, in her very early, or just pre-teens, who was in the headlines about 2 years ago for bullying a child by hanging him from a rope swing.  I can't remember if the other child survived, and I don't know what happened to the girl.

So, as you can see, I have had very black thoughts indeed, this weekend.  But I have only been able to come up with this answer to my question:

Should I teach children?  Well, in that I am a very new amateur, and don't know much, probably not.  But in the principle of teaching safety with rope: yes.  Knowing more about rope and knotting than I ever did before, I feel a responsibility to warn through teaching, through the example that rope should be used to save life, and that messing about with it, even in innocent fun, can take life.  All right, I was never in a position to let that family know that, but as the starfish story says: 'I can make a difference for this one...'  If I know only a little about rope safety, I feel a responsibility to make others aware of that little, and not be culpable by not warning about rope safety.

In fact, in view of the separate post I am going to write now concerning knots to secure inflatables in swimming pools, it could indeed make a lot of difference to 'this one'.  I will put fully here what I will repeat briefly there, as a suggestion, but I am not sure if it could be made workable:

     Could the Guild institute a simple course in rope safety, with a certificate at the end, similar to the First Aid course that St John's Ambulance do (by way of comparison)?  The questions (pro's and con's) I forsee are:

• Who would teach it? - The Guild has no single headquarters, nor an easily convened panel to administer such a thing.  If an ordinary member was to take up the suggestion, as opposed to an appointed panel or member, how could their worthiness to teach be certified?  I wondered about a "peer group" examination, perhaps at a yearly or half-yearly meeting, where a panel of long-established knotters could check the applicant's knotting ability.  After all, it's really an extension with a very serious purpose of the Scout Knot Challenge.
• How much should it cost?  Given the way the Guild membership is distributed, a cost might be in two parts: an administration fee for the Guild or national Guild branch, and a personal fee including travel expenses for the member.
• Would it need some form of insurance cover?  This is beyond me.  What would happen if someone passed such a course, and then either got things wrong, or misused the knowledge.  In the latter case, I can't see any greater blame for the Guild than for the medical school where Harold Shipman trained (a multiple-murdering doctor in the UK in recent years).  For getting things wrong, either they shouldn't pass the course, or regular refreshers could be issued.  First Aid certificates last about a year, I believe.
• What should be taught?  My limited knowledge would suggest what is covered in the opening chapters of most knotting books: types of cordage, their strengths and weaknesses, breaking factors, melting factors for modern cordage, and enough about categories of knots, bends, hitches, etc to enable the applicant to either choose a suitable knot, or at least be able to reject unsuitable ones.  And of course - there is always the forum for the pooled wisdom of the Guild when needed for a quick answer.
• What areas would it be suitable for advertising in?  Apart from the obvious 'anyone handling rope', my two most immediate suggestions are swimming pools (see my post 'Advice on waterlogged knot under strain, please') and youth areas with play facilities, such as my son's school which has a rope swing (reportedly fixed up by the children themselves, but I can't see any of them getting that high up, I think an adult must have done it) in the adventure play area.
  

I'm going to leave it there - I've been typing over an hour now, but I am glad to have shared this question.  One final thought: if anyone should think that my aspirations to teach simple decorative ropecraft to children are too ambitious, please do not hesitate to say so.  I will not be offended, and in fact I would welcome the chance to meet up even half regularly with other local knotters (we have no local branch here, as such) so that I can have my skills checked, and be sure that I am doing things right.  I look forwards to the half-yearly meeting at Styal with much keener interest than I did on Friday morning.

Regards

Glenys

[squarerigger]

Dear Glenys,

I do feel sad for those whose lives have been lost due to the misapplication of a length of rope, and I feel sad for those who live to tell the tale and to warn of the dire consequences.     However, we cannot expect that our benign teaching will in any way be construed as teaching the misapplication of the ropes.  We can and certainly should warn that rope can be dangerous if wrongly applied, but we should do so in a way that simply says "This rope is intended to do this job (decorative, practical or whatever) and it should not be used for anything else" so that children especially are warned not to use it wrongly.  As to your own teaching of decorative knots, by teaching how to put a lanyard around someone's neck you are likely inviting trouble.  Why not instead teach how to make a bracelet or a wrist lanyard for an i-Pod or mobile phone?  I do warn children, but only in the presence of their parent or teacher, so that it becomes part of the responsible party's lexicon to use with their child and so be more defensible.  When a child approaches me and asks, point-blank, "How do you make a noose?" I recognize first that the child is curious and I divert their attention to other more fruitful uses of rope.  Secondly I will also say to persistent questioning that nooses are for losers and that teaching a child how to make a noose is not something that I do.  Do warn them but do not make your warning the entire conversation, lest the child's curiousity be piqued too greatly!

I wish you well in your quest, but I do not think for one moment that the IGKT will be certifying anyone who ties knots - there is simply too much variability and a lack of re-testing to ever come close to that.

SR

[roo]

     I want to teach children about simple decorative knotting, and therefore simple ropecraft (my recent post were in "simple lanyards in knitted polypropylene" and "Recruiting new members?").  Am I right to do so, or am I inviting trouble and censure?

Parents typically allow their children access to various tools when they think they are old enough or mature enough to assimilate safety protocols properly.  It's a matter of prudential judgment. 

[TheTreeSpyder]

That's right; and in may weighs, decorative or knot; a rope is a tool; a tool of power if connected to power; as any other...

That is an absoulutely haunting story; i feel so bad for him/them.  None hear should pass by this bitter taste; breathe the lesson in deeply and remember it.
Let it burn as it must; that the price paid not be in vain.

On farm, in field; lessons taught here are to the work/controlling power setting; not how something looks.  And about all ways tell kids not to wrap rope around them; lest they be snatched like a connecting leash on a large dog that they have wrapped or cuffed onto themselves, and just can't let go!  Also on how a snapping line can come back and cut ye i 2 if standing inline with it.  But, then respect for the hugeness of power is kinda the whole setting anyway! 

[Mrs Glenys Chew]

Thank you.  I'm comforted by your replies.

I grew up on a dairy goat farm.  Rope was part of our lives, from binder-twine round the bales to the multiple-strand inch-and-half thick rope used for tethering the males.  Like a number of other things that I simply absorbed because they were just part of our life, I must have unconsciously absorbed a certain amount of rope safety.  It used to be that it was an accepted part of childhood that you could go out and build your own rope swing, and so on.  There was a greater 'rope awareness' in the general public.  I think that as children were discouraged from doing it, that awareness receded, until you find it nowadays only in children who are encouraged in such activities (be that by Scouting, adventure holidays, etc.)  The general awareness just doesn't seem the same to me.  Or perhaps I just grew up with people who were aware, and it was already gone when I was growing up.  I see it in some of the other 'lost' activities of childhood, too.  You don't see children learning about tools and tool safety by building their own go-karts, now.  Although, I'm reminded that at least a couple of boys near me are getting very good at using tools to fix the chains that keep coming off bikes and go-karts    Perhaps I'm just still being pessimistic.  My 3 year old has just this minute (6.21am) come to tell me that she's putting her climbing ability to good use by climbing over the safety gate in her bedroom.  Children use the skills they acquire   Please forgive me.

Anyway - thank you for the suggestion to find other things than lanyards to teach.  Lanyards are very popular for mobiles and gadgets, but I agree that as a noose, part of what I consider their attraction (a plaited lanyard is far stronger than a shop-bought one with a clip that will snap with one jerk) is part of their problem.  They won't break, but they may cause injury or death.  If mine were to be pulled at, I would simply tip my head in the direction of pull and let it go, but I guess other people might not think of that.

And yes, I know not to overwarn someone.  I had in mind more concentrating on the positive use, with a brief appropriate caution.

Thank you again,
Glenys

[KnotMe]

a number of times people have asked me about cord necklaces.  it is after all a very cheap way to showcase a simple pendant.  having made some for my own children and been asked about patterns that would be used for children, i've given the matter some thought.  the issue of lanyard safety usually involves a fastening that is designed to pop or break (search for people who make lanyards that can be printed with a slogan and you will usually find some information about built in safety features) in case the item in question gets caught in machinery or other mishap.  in jewelry circles, the issue of safety is usually addressed with the inclusion of a single jump ring (most often attaching the necklace to the clasp) at least somewhere in the chain part of the necklace.

why not use this common wisdom for cord?  the problem as i saw demonstrated with a cord watch that came with a split ring (what that ring was for, i had no idea) was that the metal rubs on the cord and discolours it and also the ends of the metal abrades the fibres of the cord.  if, instead you used some soldered jump rings on the cord and joined those with a standard jump ring, that would help with the abrasion.  the discolouration probably depends on the type of metal involved.  the purist in me wants an all fibre solution.  plus soldered jumprings are not that easy to come by.

the purpose of each of these is to have an easily reset pop or break point so that if the lanyard is caught or pulled, it will fail before injury is caused to the neck of the wearer.  as a secondary consideration (especially in the case of jewelry) is that the lanyard or necklace itself be preserved as intact as possible so that it can be quickly repaired and worn again.

i have a memory when researching the issue before that 5 lbs is the amount of force to cause failure that is optimal in those preprinted lanyards (i could be wrong, but that's the value i'm going with), and reading fishing line packaging tells you that those lines are 5lbs, 10lbs, 25lbs, etc.  just about any cord you're going to be tying a lanyard with is going to be way, way stronger than 5lbs, after all, often i'd be tying something decorative in a cord that was originally meant to be a mountain climbing cord.

the solution that i've meant to publish after i've finished testing is to not encircle the neck with a solid cord.  make the part that goes around the neck in 2 parts.  you can even finish the ends with a sliding loop that allows adjustability to the length of the finished necklace.  join the loops together with a short length of sewing thread (effectively a fibre jump ring).  40wt nylon wound 3 times around breaks at approx 3lbs (i attached a bag with  items making up the weight, suspended the necklace from a clothing rack and lifting up the weight to the upper length of the necklace dropped it).  other things i wanted to try before writing it all down for others to see was to see if i could get up to a break point of 5 lbs.  also i wanted to try cotton wrapped polyester thread (a more common all purpose sewing thread) just to see if i could come up with some guidelines for a variety of common threads a crafter/sewer might have handy.

if adjustability of length is not needed, then the ends could be sewn together.  no doubt that would affect the breaking weight of the thread as well.

[TheTreeSpyder]

Very nice!  In working i call such planned weak points a "mechanical fuse" that functions to 'blow out' at a lower power level than the rest of the 'wiring'; and preferably at an easy to service and safe location.  Only here the power source is mechanical and not electrical we seek to save ourselves from.   i think it is a good term to keep in mind; to be able to purposefully call out; and have this name/handle to command it by as you purposefully employ it.  Some machinery will have a 'shear pin' on a drive for similair purposes.

[drjbrennan]

A very salutory post Mrs Chew, reminding me that safety is always paramount.
It raises a number of points with me.
1) Lanyards and breaking force. I am always trying to remember this one, I recently made a lanyard out of Des Pawsons book 'Knotcraft' that was probably stong enpugh to suspend a horse! breakaways are included in most modern webbing or tape lanyards, I should try to find a cord compatible breakaway.
2) Nooses. Every group of kids I start showing knots to, there is always at least one who wants to see 'Jack Ketchs' knot'. To mollify them, I tye it quickly, let them touch it briefly and then pull it through and collapse the knot and move swiftly on to the 'Highwaymans hitch' which kids love.
3) Strangling. Also with kids, they have a tendancy to at some point put a loop around another kids neck. I swiftly tell them that there is a golden rule of 'nothing goes around the neck' I sometimes point out that the necktie tyed with a 'four in hand' knot is also known as the sailors knot, the 'Buntline hitch' well known for its tenacity and tendancy to jam when pulled up tight. Sometimes pupils horseplay includes pulling each others neckties into very tight loops which jam easily. I point out that if they do this, unless someone with sharp scissors or penknife is on the scene pretty smartish, they could have a dead kid on their hands. A few years ago, a school I was working in had an attempted suicide where a boy tried to hang himself with his necktie. A teacher (who always carried a penknife) cut the boy down just in time to save his life. I can therefore attest to the strength of neckties, easily able to suspend a 12 year old boys body weight.
4) Restraint knots. I am afraid this is an area where I downright lie to kids. All kids want to know how to tie up people.  I tell them that there are no effective rope restraints, otherwise, the police would still be using rope.
I would not ever want to be in a professional position of having to justify my actions in the promotion or teaching of rope restraint, there are simply too many undesirable outcomes for it to be a wise topic to broach with kids, so I tell them that 'Handcuff knots' are named for their shape and not for their function.

A serious post and a reminder to us all.

[DerekSmith]

Dear Glenys,

Thank you for adding an important dimension to the knot safety debate, although perhaps in this case it is more correctly a cord safety issue.

For me, there are two tragedies here.  The first is that a young boy has had a fatal accident while playing with a cord.  You ask if you (or I) would be culpable for failing to pass on our knowledge of safety --  or more correctly, danger -- of knots and cords in general.  I believe the answer is No, not even remotely, no more that my parents were for not telling me of the multitude of risks that might ensure from cord, nor your parents for failing to do the same for you.  There are many many ways that we might hurt or kill through the use of cords, our duty is surely to teach the need for our children to think for themselves of the consequences of their action - both deliberate and accidental.

The second tragedy is one where perhaps you and I are in fact jointly culpable, along with the rest of society.  This tragedy is the horrifying mess we have allowed our governments to make of our society today and the consequence that flows from it.  A measure of this is shown by Lindsey's declaration that he would not teach a child how to tie a Noose, or your fear of teaching the construction of a lanyard and the fear of litigation on any advice given relating to knot safety.  Like you, I grew up in a farming community (post war).  Nobody told me to be careful of cord -- that I could hang myself with it -- nobody needed to tell me that.  Country boys used hedge staffs and bailer twine for everything and you knew full well how strong (or weak) it was simply through experience (AKA bruises).  When I went to my father and asked him how to tie the noose, he showed me without hesitation, just as he showed me how to make cord from nettle hemp and how to splice the strongest of loops.  What I did with this knowledge was up to me, but always with a strong regard for the consequence of any actions I decided upon.  The tragedy, is that today we are afraid to teach our children to make a noose, or to tie a lanyard (which they might someday just use to save a life) and the consequence of that is that our children are generally ill equipped to think for themselves and consider any potential dangers associated with their play.

KC put it so well in his quote
"None here should pass by this bitter taste;
breathe the lesson in deeply and remember it.
Let it burn as it must;
that the price paid not be in vain."

Yet sadly, that price paid will have likely been almost wholly in vain.  No school will discuss how the tragedy unfolded. No TV programme will teach why a game went so tragically wrong.  In fact probably the opposite; not only will other children be shrouded from these 'bitter' lessons, but the environment in which they live threatens to become ever more protective as even here we consider removing the teaching of any cord use which might carry the remotest risk of harm.  Next up; the Necktie Windsor knot, a perfect slip knot tied in a material strong enough to be capable of ripping a grown man's head right off his body (it has happened many times), do we now remove the necktie knots from our library of permitted to be known knots?

I grew up with four treasured sources of information :-  My Father, my Grandfather, two treasured copies of 'Boy's Own Annual' from the 1890's and a copy of 'Inorganic and Organic Chemistry' - Bloxham ca 1890's  --  as a consequence I have learnt how to make and use most weapons (archery, sling, axe, knives), I know how to make (and have made) most of the major explosives including a high grade black powder, I have shot pistol to club level and competed at Bisley (and I know how to tie a noose and a Windsor knot).  Yet despite this, I am still alive, I have raised three children, been a School Governor, been invited to become a J.P. and been a Government Advisor on issues of Food Safety.  To date, all this dangerous knowledge has not led me to harm either myself nor anyone else and I would strongly argue that it is my knowledge and awareness of danger that has allowed me to anticipate potential consequences which held unacceptable risks and thereby evade them.

It is a tragic thought that had this young boy been brought up in a less protected and cosseted environment, he might have thought for a moment of the risk he faced and not exposed himself to his fate.  The only protection against these sorts of risk is not regulation, limitation or cotton wool society, it is a firm and clear awareness of the ever present dangers around us and an over riding awareness of the consequence of our actions.

I will continue to teach my children and grandchildren what I know, including all the dangerous stuff.

However, I will not be teaching this to other peoples children, and should it ever come to a vote, I will not be voting for the IGKT to engage in producing recommendations on knot safety.  You see, there is something much more dangerous than putting a noose around your own neck, and that is giving county Hall a reason to hang you with it !!  Once again a well honed sense of the consequence of my actions springs into action to protect me from danger, while the rest of society is left to languish in the bed it has made for itself.

However, I would happily engage in attempting to teach our new generations the importance of considering the consequence of their actions.