Author Topic: Ampersand Bowline Security Test.  (Read 494 times)

alanleeknots

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Ampersand Bowline Security Test.
« on: August 11, 2018, 12:09:42 AM »
Hi All,
         Most of the secure bowline variation chose to tuck the tail back to the nipping loop,
         Ampersand bowline, totally difference and is one of a kind knot, it tucks the tail in in between the cross over of the
         nipping loop, in a very unique, and effective place.
         Once you load the knot, the nipping loop will hold the tail in place,  the crossover then acts like an overhand knot
         deliver the maximal locking power to the tail, also the nipping loop will pull one side of the second collar try to
         tighten  the nob, make it more compact knot. as the load increases, the nipping loop continues pulling one side of
         the second collar, to a point and lets it rest in place and lock it.  it act a "Quick Release Ball Lock".
         
         My Englich is limited. that's all I can say. You want to know more see my videos, I have 25 videos and
         also Xarax' comments. alanleeknots at youtube.    謝謝 alanleeknots.

agent_smith

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Re: Ampersand Bowline Security Test.
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2018, 01:22:55 AM »
Thanks Alan.

I have attached some photos of the Ampersand Bowline so readers/visitors to this site can visualise what it looks like (and structure).

According to Xarax, it was Alan Lee who first discovered it?!

alanleeknots

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Re: Ampersand Bowline Security Test.
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2018, 06:08:23 AM »
Hi All,
         Mark, Thanks you very much for your beautiful pictures.

        Xarax already told me a long time ago, about his Ampersand bowline and my Left hand Ampersand bowline.
        I have no any doubt about his ability. he does create Ampersand bowline.
        Xarax and I like this Ampersand very much, Ampersand bowline is a truly Simple locked bowline,
        If you know how to tie ABOK # 1010 (regular bowline), all you need to do, is just one Simple tuck you have a
        very well secure bowlines
        I have to say, Ampersand bowline is a good knot, then Lee's locked Yosemite bowline and Lee's Link bowline.
               謝謝 alanleeknots.

roo

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Re: Ampersand Bowline Security Test.
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 04:58:34 PM »
        I have to say, Ampersand bowline is a good knot,             
Hi Eric,

I notice that it's easy to miss how that last tuck is threaded through.  Even in the enlarged photos, the critical path is barely visible in the shadows.  The likely mis-tuck probably won't create an evil impostor, but it may significantly affect security while looking like the same knot. 

« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 05:09:17 PM by roo »
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Knutern

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Re: Ampersand Bowline Security Test.
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 06:37:24 PM »
Agree. I've looked at the youtube video online, and during tying and learning for myself, I had several occations where it accidentally turned into a sort of noose instead. Possible because I used soft ropes (shoe lakes) when testing.
I'm aiming for knots that is secure, AND that is easy to untie.

alanleeknots

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Re: Ampersand Bowline Security Test.
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2018, 07:15:20 PM »
Hi All,
        Thank you Mr Roo I start to change my mind, start to like you again, come to important issues, you prefer not
        to keep silent, Just hear one side of the story from Xarax and I is no healthy at all to the forum.

       
Quote
I notice that it's easy to miss how that last tuck is threaded through.

      Ok, lets say here have two average people have the same IQ A and B, they never tie or see a knot tie a knot before,
       I will teach A how to tie a bowline #1010 just one time, and for B I have a bowline ready for him, and teach him
        where to tuck the last tuck also just one time only.
         Three months later, I got A and B back,  I will give A a piece a rope and give B a bowline,
          and ask them to do what I have taught them before.
      Tell me which person has a better chance to finish the task.
           謝謝 alanleeknots.

alanleeknots

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Re: Ampersand Bowline Security Test.
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2018, 09:18:54 PM »
Hi All,
       
Quote
I had several occations where it accidentally turned into a sort of noose instead.

          Kuntern, I don't know how to turn bowline into noose, can you please show me how you do it.

Knutern

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Re: Ampersand Bowline Security Test.
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2018, 11:50:40 PM »
Unfortunately I have not the answer, and I cannot replicate now. It was mainly at the start of the "learning curve", say one per sixth try ended up in a noose. Only thing for sure I know I did something fundamentally wrong. . .
I'm aiming for knots that is secure, AND that is easy to untie.

zoranz

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Re: Ampersand Bowline Security Test.
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2018, 03:15:31 PM »
Few years ago I started to use Fontus bowline. It is an older cousin of Ampersand. And younger from Janus. The difference (vs. Ampersand) is only last tuck.

http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1202.0;attach=17539

When Ampersand was born, I ignored it. Fontus worked for me well and there was no reason to change anything. (TIB-ness was not important for me for tieing the end loop!) I didn't compared (by tests) both knots that I can say: 1st (or 2nd) is better! It was only intuition that told me: Fontus is quite good for my purpose.
But, a month ago (because of my trouble) I had a real exam. The anchor of my little boat get stuck on the bottom of the sea and I could not get it out. I tried using an outboard engine of 6 HP. It lasted for 1 minute and there was no move. Finally we dived and released the anchor. The knot on the boat was Fontus, while the link with anchor was the Anchor Hitch. Both knots looked OK after the heavy loading.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 03:37:05 PM by zoranz »

alanleeknots

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Re: Ampersand Bowline Security Test.
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2018, 07:26:20 PM »
Hi All,
          Zoranz Thanks for you reply, Xarax is happy, you trust and use Fontus bowline, you like it keep using it, in the future
          if you find anything good or bad, please let Xarax know, we don't want to just hear one side of the story from Xarax.
          we do need more people like you, see something good or bad and can come forward and speak it out,
          if more people chose not to keep silent, will make this forum more healthy.

          About Ampersand bowline, I can only compare to my own knots, here is how I like to place them,
          1st Ampersand bowline, 2nd Lee's locked Yosemite bowline, 3 Lee's link bowline.
            謝謝 alanleeknots.