Help identifying a knot I know as the "G.E."

[learninoneminute]

Hello All,
My name is Brandon, I'm a new member here. I made a video teaching two knots I learned as a river guide, a hitch called the "G.E." and the trucker's hitch. I was contacted by a TV show the History Channel will be launching and they bought one-time rights to the video. They've asked me for history on the "G.E." knot -- but all I know was it was allegedly handed down by a General Electric lineman to a river guide, who then taught the other river guides in California going back to the early 80's. Can this group help identify this knot's true origin and proper name? I would be so grateful. Here's a link to the video on my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/chargelife/videos/10209602148544902/
Thank You!!!
Brandon Nelson

[roo]

Hello All,
My name is Brandon, I'm a new member here. I made a video teaching two knots I learned as a river guide, a hitch called the "G.E." and the trucker's hitch. I was contacted by a TV show the History Channel will be launching and they bought one-time rights to the video. They've asked me for history on the "G.E." knot -- but all I know was it was allegedly handed down by a General Electric lineman to a river guide, who then taught the other river guides in California going back to the early 80's. Can this group help identify this knot's true origin and proper name? I would be so grateful. Here's a link to the video on my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/chargelife/videos/10209602148544902/
Thank You!!!
Brandon Nelson

I'm afraid this GE hitch falls under the category of lesser-known for a reason.  It's tendency to capsize into a jammed mess under serious strain should disqualify it from practical use.

[Olegan67]

Hello Brandon!And wellcome! :)In my opinion, in this category of knots, there is the most interesting and reliable. For a collection it can be left. Also he can be added in other branch where it is discussed Trucker Hitch/http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1870.0Anyway thanks for video.

[learninoneminute]

Hi Roo, thanks for the reply. I certainly respect your opinion, but let me share my practical use experience with the GE knot. I've used the GE and truckers together to secure kayaks and whitewater rafts to roof racks, sometimes single boats, sometimes stacks of boats, for probably 200,000 miles worth of driving, including off-road canyon terrain and highways alike. These are our two knots for tying down gear loads on whitewater rafts to keep things in place through big rapids and in case of flip. And, of course, in just everyday situations like moving furniture as shown in the video. Over the past 25 years since I learned these knots I've tied the GE probably well over 10,000 times -- usually with 1/2" or 1" tubular webbing. I've never once had it fail. I realize its ease-of-untying disqualifies it for something like tying into a climbing harness, and I have no technical data on how much it reduces the strength of the line (I understand a bowline is a 70% knot, a figure 8 is an 80% knot, etc.) but for practical use, quick tying and untying, it has been anything but unreliable.

[roo]

Over the past 25 years since I learned these knots I've tied the GE probably well over 10,000 times -- usually with 1/2" or 1" tubular webbing. I've never once had it fail.

Here's a chance to expand your horizons.  Try the knot in 1/4 inch braided nylon around a baseball bat, and pull it hard with the help of a bar or the like.  Hold the bat with your feet and pull the bar with your arms.

It predictably capsizes into another form that jams.   Please seek other hitches.  A knot is terrible thing to be married to.

[Dan_Lehman]

They've asked me for history on the "G.E." knot -- but all I know was it was allegedly handed down by a General Electric lineman to a river guide, who then taught the other river guides in California going back to the early 80's. Can this group help identify this knot's true origin and proper name?

I'm not sure if I'll be able to meet your request for ID
--but the knot at least has some similar ones, which
(I and) others should be able to bring to attention.

Let me remark, though, that "3-to-1" advantage is well
shy of that "theoretical" mark :: you can try doing the
figuring with dead weights and seeing what does/doesNOT
move a load --you'll be far from moving at 3:1 rate, more
like 1.6:1 (a figure got IIRC using 'biners at sheaves, even!).
Still, to your point, it does give advantage --and also holds
the gain well.  (And it's a commonly used structure.)

As for this "G.E. knot's" behavior, I think that you'll go
a significant way to removing Roo's worked-to-extreme-loading
warning by making your final tuck of the slip-bight from the
opposite side (just as a fig.8 does vs. an overhand, a fig.10
aka "stevedore" over a fig.9).

IMO, I'd do things a bit differently.
Firstly, as a guard vs. any sliding along the metal rail,
if that supporting vertical piece is indeed convenient,
I'd wrap so that my line lay on both sides of it, and so
couldn't move along the rail.  Another techinque to resist
such movement is making a full turn (or more) around
the rail --a sort of friction gripping.

I might favor an eyeknot so to deliver half-load to each leg's
turning around the square/hard-edged bar, vs. bringing full
tension to one turn/corner.  (As you note, you're not just
musing but have a history of usage to consider, re how much
an injurious effect might obtain --YMMV and all ... . :-)

I'd finish tying by going around all parts of the trucker's
hitch, not just one line, and I might work the tail through
some closely set --and thus potentially pinching-- lines
for additional security.  Also, a slip-knot stopper makes
a nice guard against even vibration-induced slipping,
since vibrations won't being the stopper through anything!

In short, what your present is aimed at a sort of whizz-bang
dramatic quick untying, which I'd suggest is really of very
little importance vs. normal (merely) easy untying of the
conventional knots.  Sometimes, the quickness can be
a real help; in many cases, hardly worth the bother  (e.g.,
one might have one end of a securing line left securely
tied, and only awaiting re-loading of gear and tossing
over that ... and re-tying the tensioning structure).

Thanks for sharing,
--dl*
====

[knotsaver]

Can this group help identify this knot's true origin and proper name?

Hello  Brandon,
a similar hitch with one more coil is shown by Ashley (ABoK #1828, the Manger Hitch).
Ciao,
s.

[learninoneminute]

Wow! Thank you good people for sharing your wisdom and feedback here. I will indeed look into all these suggestions and enhancements! I agree: A knot is a terrible thing to be married to!

[learninoneminute]

Roo, I did your test. You're 100% right. The knot collapsed. I couldn't untie whatever it became. Ahhh, how I love learning.
I wonder if the same thing would happen with the tubular webbing I've typically used? I haven't tried that yet.
And I haven't tried the one extra half-wrap Dan Lehman has suggested. I'm still trying to untie the collapsed GE.
More to come!
Happy New Year All!!!

[Twine]

Now I suggest you tie the first knot as the most ordinary and simple hitch: The clove hitch! Only with one addition: Make sure you have a stopper on the end. That little stopper makes the clove hitch a million times more secure! Or more!

For a stopper I use a figure nine knot because (if you tie it in the right orientation) it stops very well and yet is easy to untie even if there's been load on it (if it is tied in the right orientation, which takes some experimentation). But an ordinary overhand knot is often good enough, since the load it receives is very small because the half-hitches of the clove hitch do most of the work. Also, if you always use the rope for the same purpose there's no reason to ever untie the stopper knot, so then a common overhand is just fine.

Then adjust the hitch by pulling on the standing part so that the stopper is pulled up against the clove hitch. In other words, you dress it by allowing it to slip until the stopper stops it from doing so. The knot I describe here is so good it actually works as a binder or a gripping hitch, while still being no harder to untie than two half-hitches once there is no load on the standing end. You untie it by jerking the (stoppered) tail end a bit until the clove hitch loosens up. I will call this hitch "Stoppered Clove Hitch" unless someone has a better name for it. It is self-locking and grips well even with slippery rope around a round bar of polished steel. If you're using something like Dyneema, perhaps not even the figure nine stopper is enough to prevent slipping, but who would use that insanely expensive material for this purpose? I don't know enough about that material, but I intend to buy a few meters to experiment with.