General > Chit Chat
Zeppelin Bend look-alike
knottnautnot:
Hello: I am new to the forum, so pardon me if I bring up something already covered.
I am interested in a knot that looks a lot like the Rosendahl/zeppelin bend, but IMHO, a prettier knot. I will try to describe it, and perhaps someone can tell me the name as well as how safe and useful it is. To my beginner's eye, this knot looks better, and appears to be just as secure and just as easy to untie.
This knot is exactly like the zeppelin with one exception: the right hand loop is exactly reversed from what is shown in the zepplelin: the loop goes to the left instead of the right, with the bitter end under the standing line, just as in the zeppelin. The result is a pretty knot with two symmetrical loops, one on either side of the knot. As I see the zeppelin, it comes out with two loops on one side, and only one on the other.
The knot I have (tried to) describe[d] is perfectly symmetrical, with the bitter ends protruding at right angles to the dressed knot's two loops.
Thanks,
ps as soon as I figure out how, I will enclose a picture of this knot.
Dan_Lehman:
Welcome, KnotNautNot (! :) ) !
Your description stands in need of clarity.
Let me ask and try to make it perspicuous.
Are you --in making this questioned knot-- essentially
removing one end from the zeppelin and then bringing it
back into the knot (w/o changing the other end's shape)
so that it turns in the opposite direction (anti-clockwise if
it originally was clockwise, e.g.), and still goes around and
forms a complementary overhand component such that
the tail will exit the way it had originally --in opposite direction
to the other tail, as for the z. ?!
THAT knot is known, and regarded as a mistake --and not of
good value : it is less stable in form and tends to jam (more so).
(And it has been discussed on this forum (someone might find
the thread(s)).)
--dl*
====
knottnautnot:
Dan: Let me try again. Here is one way to tie a zeppelin: you lay out two loops; the left loop is a "6" and the right loop is a "9". The bitter end of the "6" goes over the standing part, and the bitter end of the "9" goes under the standing part. You then put the "6" over the "9" then bring the bitter end of the "6" around and through the loop(s). You bring the bitter end of the "9" around and through the same loop(s). This makes the zeppelin bend. Have I described what you already know clearly? I hope so.
In the knot I am trying to describe, you lay out the "6" as before, but instead of a "9" you reverse the direction of the loop, making it counter-clockwise, with the bitter end still under the standing part. You have a mirror image "9". How am I doing? From this point, you proceed as in the regular zeppelin bend, and you come out with a perfectly symmetrical knot, viewed from either side (front or back). The regular zeppelin is not the same on the front as on the back.
I hope this clears up my inadequate explanation---the sage was right---a picture is worth at least a thousand words...
knotnautnot
Dan_Lehman:
--- Quote from: knottnautnot on August 03, 2012, 05:12:58 AM ---you lay out two loops; the left loop is a "6" and the right loop is a "9".
--- End quote ---
Check.
--- Quote ---The bitter end ...
--- End quote ---
Um, let's *check* that term : it should denote the "end" as in
"side" / "half" / "part" (i.e., that bunch o' rope over there...)
of a line at the bits
--and not some *ultimate*/absolute end-of-ends point (which
is, sadly, the vogue use of it by those ignoring the history).
As we still use bitts, it seems worth fighting to preserve and
continue the historical sense of this term, and not to stoop
to commoners' parlance who come without nautical seasoning.
--- Quote ---In the knot I am trying to describe, you lay out the "6" as before, but instead of a "9" you reverse the direction of the loop, making it counter-clockwise
--- End quote ---
Whoa : flowing down the line into the '6' or '9' takes one
into an anti-clockwise rotation (towards the tail, into the
knot from the to-be-tensioned SPart). (You must be seeing
the movement going the opposite way.)
In either case, though, in the zeppelin and several other
interlocked-overhands end-2-end knots, the SParts turn
such that they rotate the same way (and so give a quite sure
grip and twist to the nipped parts --unlike the butterfly, e.g.!).
--- Quote ---... have a mirror image "9". How am I doing?
--- End quote ---
On explanation, fine ; on reading my reply, maybe not-so-good :
I described this knot, which as noted is one brought up previously
(and accidentally/mistakenly, in some cases, for the zeppelin).
--- Quote --- you come out with a perfectly symmetrical knot, viewed from either side (front or back). The regular zeppelin is not the same on the front as on the back.
--- End quote ---
I will leave it to others to indulge the nature of symmetry,
but suffice it to say I regard both as such ; the z. has the
quality of looking the same from *top* & *bottom* (in the
sense of in each case one SPart's collar goes under and the
other's over, and so on).
Also, the knot you describe is superfically like SmitHunter's bend
(but that knot's overhands interlock).
Thanks,
--dl*
====
postscript
--- Quote ------the sage was right---a picture is worth at least a thousand words...
--- End quote ---
Hardly : one needs closer attention to language use, and not
dismiss it or take it cavalierly ; it should work, but it takes
some work & discipline to keep this tool sharp --such as slapping
away degradation & abuse.
knottnautnot:
I'm sorry I asked in the first place. I know less than I did before. I expected some kind of assistance, but wound up not knowing if I have been insulted for my use of language or exactly what was the point of your comments.
Thanks anyway. I will not bother the site with any more stupid questions.
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