General > Practical Knots

two loops in a noose?

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knot4u:
You mentioned Girth Hitch. That works too as long as you secure the working end by using a Bowline or another loop knot.


--- Quote from: sinthome on March 30, 2012, 12:30:25 AM ---Oops, I edited my post before refreshing. I need the water knot centered below the cord, pulling up vertically. The sailor's hitch looks like it would pull from the side, not the middle, but I will try it.

--- End quote ---

I'm thinking a noose may not be necessary. One of these might work:

-Anchor Bend (ABOK# 1723)
-Backhand Hitch (ABOK# 1852)
-Roundturn & Two Half Hitches (ABOK# 1720)

...You get the idea.

sinthome:
yes, it is a foot loop meant for climbing. but for arborist use, not rock. there may very well be better options than a double loop for securing around the water knot and i am fully open to trying other things.

by staying "open", it is a kind of subtle, but useful difference, so i made a little sketch to show what i mean. on the left is what i am trying to accomplish, on the right is what tends to happen in the usual setup, which consists of a loop of accessory cord connected with a girth hitch. in the latter, usually the water knot migrates to the bottom of the foot loop and is both uncomfortable to repeatedly step on and also tends to sag under the weight of the knot and the crimping of the webbing by the hitch, which makes it harder to slide your foot into it. by tying the cord onto the water knot, i am hoping it will keep the webbing loop in a rounder, more "open" shape.

i like the gnat hitch idea, except i often will use the "beer knot" configuration of the water knot, so the knot itself is worked inside the tubular webbing and not accessible for threading. i will try out the other suggestions and maybe this sketch and further explanation will help make it more obvious what i am looking to do.

SS369:
Just a suggestion, although I hope to continue the knot research.

Putting a small piece of tubing (old garden hose)where your foot will be will accomplish what you need with the added benefit of protecting that area.

Why the webbing in the first place? I use a Purcell Prusik set up and the loop stays open and is adjustable too. Allowing for loop size changes and length of sling as well.

But, for your request I would probably use a loop knot and then use the loop to make a four coil prusik (two coils on each side of the water/beer knot) as per Dan's recommendation.

SS

Dan_Lehman:

--- Quote from: SS369 on April 01, 2012, 06:44:02 PM ---Just a suggestion, although I hope to continue the knot research.

Putting a small piece of tubing (old garden hose)where your foot will be
will accomplish what you need with the added benefit of protecting that area.

Why the webbing in the first place?

--- End quote ---

The tape is chosen primarily for comfort (wide against one's
foot), I surmise.

I think that this idea is good, maybe best, but for the
cost of *transport* (the hose being stiffer & heavier
than the usual soft goods).  I was thinking of somehow
inserting similar firmness at the other/upper end of
the structure --as a spreader--; but this idea of making
the spreading at the bottom/footstep end of the eye
is both simpler and maybe better in terms of effect
(being a mass that will both hold open and hold down
the eye).  And it allows one to occasionally shift the
position of the closed loop (eye, by virtue of the cord
attachment) material within the loop --e.g., one could
begin with the water knot at the left end of the hose,
and work it by 3" shifts, say, until it's at the right end,
putting thus a variety of material at the wear points.

Now, given the use of a hose, maybe tape isn't seen
as the right material, but some cord (and cheap, discarded
rope might suit, here).  I have used hose to protect 11mm
rope, which is way stronger than needed.


--dl*
====

roo:

--- Quote from: sinthome on April 01, 2012, 06:00:49 PM ---i like the gnat hitch idea, except i often will use the "beer knot" configuration of the water knot, so the knot itself is worked inside the tubular webbing and not accessible for threading. i will try out the other suggestions and maybe this sketch and further explanation will help make it more obvious what i am looking to do.

--- End quote ---
Actually, I assumed that your water knot or beer knot would be tied first, and THEN the Gnat Hitch would be applied on the spine side of the overhand knot structure in the webbing by passing the end of the rope through the center of the loosened overhand knot structure of the webbing.  See the attached diagram.

Now that you described your task in detail, it may be that you could just tie a Zeppelin Loop for the webbing (which has a fairly open loop) and then transition from the standing part of the loop to the cord with a Zeppelin Bend.

See also:  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3921.msg23252#msg23252

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